Critique my driving - Willow Springs
10-10-2002, 08:27 PM
#1
Race Car
Thread Starter
Critique my driving - Willow Springs
I went back on Wednesday for another crack at Willow Springs. My goal is to be able to run consistent 1:33's there. So far, my best has been a 1:35, and on Wednesday I couln't manage better than a 1:36 flat.
One problem may have been that my tires (Yoko A032R's) were on the old side, having been last used in May. I re-mounted them for this event since there was still ample tread on them. Hate top waste good tires.
But the larger problem may just be me. You'll see that even in this clip, I'm sliding around too much. I don't have much instruction time at this track, so I suspect there are things that I'm doing qrong that will jump out at more experienced drivers, especially those familiar with Willow Springs.
I'll post the link to a Quicktime movie (9 megs), as well as an AVI version (11 megs) of the same lap.
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap.mov" target="_blank">Quicktime Willow Lap</a>
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap.avi" target="_blank">AVI Willow Lap</a>
One problem may have been that my tires (Yoko A032R's) were on the old side, having been last used in May. I re-mounted them for this event since there was still ample tread on them. Hate top waste good tires.
But the larger problem may just be me. You'll see that even in this clip, I'm sliding around too much. I don't have much instruction time at this track, so I suspect there are things that I'm doing qrong that will jump out at more experienced drivers, especially those familiar with Willow Springs.
I'll post the link to a Quicktime movie (9 megs), as well as an AVI version (11 megs) of the same lap.
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap.mov" target="_blank">Quicktime Willow Lap</a>
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap.avi" target="_blank">AVI Willow Lap</a>
10-11-2002, 10:27 AM
#2
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Not to clutter up your thread with loose talk....
While I can't critique your driving, I did enjoy the ride. Thanks a lot.
Charlie White <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
While I can't critique your driving, I did enjoy the ride. Thanks a lot.
Charlie White <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
10-11-2002, 01:58 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Fast Jack writes, "I went back on Wednesday for another crack at Willow Springs. My goal is to be able to run consistent 1:33's there. So far, my best has been a 1:35, and on Wednesday I couln't manage better than a 1:36 flat."
A 1:35 in a street car that has not been stripped down to bare bones is fantastic. Running consistent 1:33s is a fantastic goal..my personal goal is to run a 1:35, just once. I need to shave 4 seconds off my time. I know I can get 1 second with a seat, the rest will be to acquire the talent.
Jack adds, "One problem may have been that my tires (Yoko A032R's) were on the old side, having been last used in May. I re-mounted them for this event since there was still ample tread on them. Hate top waste good tires."
I agree...the problem may be tires. You go out there on a fresh set of Hoosiers, you'll see the difference. Of course you'll burn them up in a weekend...but look at the fun you will have.
Jack confesses even more sins, "But the larger problem may just be me. You'll see that even in this clip, I'm sliding around too much. I don't have much instruction time at this track, so I suspect there are things that I'm doing wrong that will jump out at more experienced drivers, especially those familiar with Willow Springs."
I have driven Willow many times. I watched the video, you look like you are doing fine. As long as you are full on the gas (no lifty) from the bottom of the Omega through 8, and you get a good exit speed out of 9 and you don't over brake for turns 1 and 2, you'll be in hog heaven.
Just to let you know where talent kicks in, Cort Wagner, as rumor has it, drove a stock 996 with street tites around WSIR at a clip of 1:31.
Great job at Willow Springs Raceway. Come out for some Alfa Club events in 2003. I know I will be there...they run a great event.
A 1:35 in a street car that has not been stripped down to bare bones is fantastic. Running consistent 1:33s is a fantastic goal..my personal goal is to run a 1:35, just once. I need to shave 4 seconds off my time. I know I can get 1 second with a seat, the rest will be to acquire the talent.
Jack adds, "One problem may have been that my tires (Yoko A032R's) were on the old side, having been last used in May. I re-mounted them for this event since there was still ample tread on them. Hate top waste good tires."
I agree...the problem may be tires. You go out there on a fresh set of Hoosiers, you'll see the difference. Of course you'll burn them up in a weekend...but look at the fun you will have.
Jack confesses even more sins, "But the larger problem may just be me. You'll see that even in this clip, I'm sliding around too much. I don't have much instruction time at this track, so I suspect there are things that I'm doing wrong that will jump out at more experienced drivers, especially those familiar with Willow Springs."
I have driven Willow many times. I watched the video, you look like you are doing fine. As long as you are full on the gas (no lifty) from the bottom of the Omega through 8, and you get a good exit speed out of 9 and you don't over brake for turns 1 and 2, you'll be in hog heaven.
Just to let you know where talent kicks in, Cort Wagner, as rumor has it, drove a stock 996 with street tites around WSIR at a clip of 1:31.
Great job at Willow Springs Raceway. Come out for some Alfa Club events in 2003. I know I will be there...they run a great event.
10-11-2002, 04:47 PM
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I gotta tell ya, Jack-
I admire you:
Some people have beautiful P-cars.
Others have old ones.
Still others have fast ones.
And still others have cars they USE.
Rarely do you see all 4 in one owner & car.
Congratulations!
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
I admire you:
Some people have beautiful P-cars.
Others have old ones.
Still others have fast ones.
And still others have cars they USE.
Rarely do you see all 4 in one owner & car.
Congratulations!
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
10-11-2002, 08:48 PM
#5
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Nice run, Jack. I'm sure you'll get there. I agree with tires...and experience on the track...both of which I'm sure will follow... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
10-14-2002, 06:05 PM
#7
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when was the last time you changed your oil and brake fluid? I say this because, I dynoed my 911 before and after changing out the oil and I gained 8HP! he old oil had nearly 4K miles on it. New brake fluid will help you go deeper into a turn too. Maybe it wasnt your driving style....maybe it was your car........My ego says, its always easier to blame the car than the driver 
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10-15-2002, 04:12 AM
#8
Race Car
Thread Starter
Thanks, guys. I'm going to try to take another day this month to see if I can do a little better. I may use some of that chemical restoring goop on the tires, since they have another good day on them. Next up, I've got a set of Kumhos waiting. I'm just too cheap to throw away tires with good tread left on them.
I think my areas to work on are turns one, five and nine, more or less in that order.
And Martin, I'm planning on the Alfa event at Laguna next month.
Alan, my car is useless in POC classifications. The mods put me in the same category as big-dollar race cars.
And thanks, Mein 14. It is a truly dual-purpose car. Here it was on Wedenesday...
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/WSIROct02-B.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>
...and here it was after a high-speed off from between turns 8 and 9...
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/WSIRUgly.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>
...and here it was four days later, all cleaned up for a Sunday drive:
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/22SundayDrive-M.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>
(Click on the thumbnails for larger versions of the pictures.)
Oh, and Robert, the fluids generally get changed every three months or so -- so blaming the car is pretty much out.
I think my areas to work on are turns one, five and nine, more or less in that order.
And Martin, I'm planning on the Alfa event at Laguna next month.
Alan, my car is useless in POC classifications. The mods put me in the same category as big-dollar race cars.
And thanks, Mein 14. It is a truly dual-purpose car. Here it was on Wedenesday...
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/WSIROct02-B.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>...and here it was after a high-speed off from between turns 8 and 9...
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/WSIRUgly.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>...and here it was four days later, all cleaned up for a Sunday drive:
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/22SundayDrive-M.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>(Click on the thumbnails for larger versions of the pictures.)
Oh, and Robert, the fluids generally get changed every three months or so -- so blaming the car is pretty much out.
10-18-2002, 11:41 AM
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You asked for a driving critique...
Let me start by saying that I've never driven Willow Springs so take my observations with a grain of salt.
I have two general comments. First, it doesn't seem like you're using all of your exit room on some of the corners. It looks like from the map that several of the turns (3 and 4, in particular) would be "compromise turns", so I wouldn't expect you to track all the way out there, but turn 1 is the one I'm questioning most. It looks like you got just a little loose on this lap in turn 1, but you don't track out to the right side of the track. It appears from the video that there is enough of a straight between turns 1 and 2 that you could track all the way out on the exit of 1 and still have time to smoothly get to the left to set up for 2. Nice late apex on 2, btw I observe the same thing between 8 and 9 - your line and speed are not carrying you all the way to the edge of the track on the exit of 8 (just like 1), so there is some speed to gain there if you get your turn-in point and attitude set up correctly, I'll bet your car is capable of carrying a bit more speed through there.
My second general comment is exactly what you noted yourself - that you are sliding too much. You have to make several LARGE corrections on this lap. You do a great job of saving it each time, but that's not the fastest way around the track. Your hands are generally quiet (a very good thing) except in turn 5 on this particular lap. Things got a little squirrelly there! And 5 looks like a super important turn as it leads onto a long straight. Make that turn smooth and be ON the throttle through the exit rather than recovering from trying to carry too much speed into the turn, and I'll bet you pick up some time.
Again - I have no personal experience on this track - but those are my observations.
What do you think?
btw - Are you going to Laguna with the Alfa Club in November? I sent in my application, so I hope to be there. I'll have my new "bullet cam" set up, so we'll have to do some lead-follow stuff. I can get some great footage of your line "from behind".
Dean
Let me start by saying that I've never driven Willow Springs so take my observations with a grain of salt.
I have two general comments. First, it doesn't seem like you're using all of your exit room on some of the corners. It looks like from the map that several of the turns (3 and 4, in particular) would be "compromise turns", so I wouldn't expect you to track all the way out there, but turn 1 is the one I'm questioning most. It looks like you got just a little loose on this lap in turn 1, but you don't track out to the right side of the track. It appears from the video that there is enough of a straight between turns 1 and 2 that you could track all the way out on the exit of 1 and still have time to smoothly get to the left to set up for 2. Nice late apex on 2, btw
I observe the same thing between 8 and 9 - your line and speed are not carrying you all the way to the edge of the track on the exit of 8 (just like 1), so there is some speed to gain there if you get your turn-in point and attitude set up correctly, I'll bet your car is capable of carrying a bit more speed through there.My second general comment is exactly what you noted yourself - that you are sliding too much. You have to make several LARGE corrections on this lap. You do a great job of saving it each time, but that's not the fastest way around the track. Your hands are generally quiet (a very good thing) except in turn 5 on this particular lap. Things got a little squirrelly there!
And 5 looks like a super important turn as it leads onto a long straight. Make that turn smooth and be ON the throttle through the exit rather than recovering from trying to carry too much speed into the turn, and I'll bet you pick up some time.Again - I have no personal experience on this track - but those are my observations.
What do you think?
btw - Are you going to Laguna with the Alfa Club in November? I sent in my application, so I hope to be there. I'll have my new "bullet cam" set up, so we'll have to do some lead-follow stuff. I can get some great footage of your line "from behind".
Dean
10-18-2002, 02:27 PM
#10
Race Car
Thread Starter
Dean
I think your comments are pretty much right on. Turns 1, 5 and 9 are my next areas of improvement.
Here's another lap that is smoother, and probably would have been faster if I didn't get a little crazy between turns 4 and 5.
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap2.mov" target="_blank">Quicktime Alternate Willow Lap</a>
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap2.avi" target="_blank">AVI Alternate Willow Lap</a>
And yes, I'm planning to be at Laguna for the Alfa event -- so long as they didn't fill up before my application got in. I'm not very fast at Laguna (only been there once), so any advice you can offer about that track would be great.
Here's a Laguna lap of mine from a long time back.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/LagunaSeca01.mov" target="_blank">A lap at Laguna Seca - Quicktime</a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/LagunaSeca01.avi" target="_blank">A lap at Laguna Seca - AVI</a>
I think your comments are pretty much right on. Turns 1, 5 and 9 are my next areas of improvement.
Here's another lap that is smoother, and probably would have been faster if I didn't get a little crazy between turns 4 and 5.
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap2.mov" target="_blank">Quicktime Alternate Willow Lap</a>
<a href="http://bender.annenberg.edu/pelican/JackOlsen/WSIRlap2.avi" target="_blank">AVI Alternate Willow Lap</a>
And yes, I'm planning to be at Laguna for the Alfa event -- so long as they didn't fill up before my application got in. I'm not very fast at Laguna (only been there once), so any advice you can offer about that track would be great.
Here's a Laguna lap of mine from a long time back.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/LagunaSeca01.mov" target="_blank">A lap at Laguna Seca - Quicktime</a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/LagunaSeca01.avi" target="_blank">A lap at Laguna Seca - AVI</a>
10-18-2002, 07:01 PM
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Jack,
I've never driven Laguna so I was going to ask YOU for advice! I guess I'll have to start and you'll have to continue to learn the track that weekend. I've watched a few races there and I've been watching a lot in-car footage from the Speed Channel GT series that ran there a month or so ago. So I should at least know which turn is coming up next by November 9th
Looks like a fun track! I can't wait...
btw - who did you have tech your car for the Alfa club? Or haven't you, yet? I've called all the guys listed in their entry form that are in the Bay Area and none have returned my call.
Dean
I've never driven Laguna so I was going to ask YOU for advice! I guess I'll have to start and you'll have to continue to learn the track that weekend. I've watched a few races there and I've been watching a lot in-car footage from the Speed Channel GT series that ran there a month or so ago. So I should at least know which turn is coming up next by November 9th
Looks like a fun track! I can't wait...
btw - who did you have tech your car for the Alfa club? Or haven't you, yet? I've called all the guys listed in their entry form that are in the Bay Area and none have returned my call.
Dean
10-18-2002, 08:17 PM
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Jack,
I just watched the alternate lap at WSIR and noticed that in turn one you turned in a little late. Coming down the straight you should be in 5th (as I recall you have a close ratio gearbox)a slight tap of the brakes and downshift to 4th, a mid to late apex and aim for the reflectors on the inside, let it drift out on the exit and if done correctly the track will disappear for an instant. You are forcing the car inside scrubbing off too much speed. With your car you should be a able to take turn one at least 95 mph. Also, you should be in 5th just before seven and turn in a tad later, then hug the inside and aim for the telephone lines off in the distance to the right of the Toyota building, which willl give you a straight line to the entry of nine. (at this point screaming helps, youre on the floor in 5th )
BTW, the screaming part was a tip from Mike Marshall. Then, lift, tap the brakes, downshift to 4th and very late apex in nine, try and bring the right front tire to the red and white gator if possible.
I'd say work on 1, then when you get it down move on to 2, then 8/9.
Set your suspension up for turn 2 and as your tires degrade after a few sessions (my car tends to push after several sessions) you may need to stiffen or soften the sway bars.
I got down to 1:3322 last weekend , but I was running 245/45's and 315/35 Kuhmo V700's, which have a little cord showing after 6 events.
Good luck !
PS) watch the walls at Laguna !
I just watched the alternate lap at WSIR and noticed that in turn one you turned in a little late. Coming down the straight you should be in 5th (as I recall you have a close ratio gearbox)a slight tap of the brakes and downshift to 4th, a mid to late apex and aim for the reflectors on the inside, let it drift out on the exit and if done correctly the track will disappear for an instant. You are forcing the car inside scrubbing off too much speed. With your car you should be a able to take turn one at least 95 mph. Also, you should be in 5th just before seven and turn in a tad later, then hug the inside and aim for the telephone lines off in the distance to the right of the Toyota building, which willl give you a straight line to the entry of nine. (at this point screaming helps, youre on the floor in 5th )
BTW, the screaming part was a tip from Mike Marshall. Then, lift, tap the brakes, downshift to 4th and very late apex in nine, try and bring the right front tire to the red and white gator if possible.
I'd say work on 1, then when you get it down move on to 2, then 8/9.
Set your suspension up for turn 2 and as your tires degrade after a few sessions (my car tends to push after several sessions) you may need to stiffen or soften the sway bars.
I got down to 1:3322 last weekend , but I was running 245/45's and 315/35 Kuhmo V700's, which have a little cord showing after 6 events.
Good luck !
PS) watch the walls at Laguna !
