Operating Temp Q's
06-13-2008, 04:15 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Edward,
Do you have a pic of your setup you can post. I am not quite picturing it.
Thanks
Do you have a pic of your setup you can post. I am not quite picturing it.
Thanks
A rising temp needle idling around is normal. Not ideal, but certainly normal. I've often heard many a guru, however, commonly point to 9:00 or thereabouts (~230 degrees) as the "upper end" of normal, and any higher is reaching into the "bad, but not deadly" zone. That said, if it were me, I'd be willing to accept an occasional albeit rare spike into that zone, but I certainly wouldn't want to make that anything close to a condition that my car would see regularly, even if it were just a seasonal occurance.
The 28-row brass cooler is also often called the "euro cooler" as they were OE on some years, can't recall which, though.
The US OEM trombone cooler, IMHO, is nearly useless, and completely so in traffic. The 28-row is a huge improvement, but you still need to get air in there or it'll be only a marginal improvment. Lots of folks put a discreet opening (say, 1.5"x6") into the uppermost part of the valance (so it is right underneath the bumper line) to help get some airflow. Remember that any cooler is only as good as its airflow: get cool stuff in and, and give the hot stuff a place to escape. Others have used a Carrera valance as it has a foglight opening, and they simply do not mount the foglight ...now there's an opening
But for a real fix, you need to get a real finned cooler, aka "Carrera cooler," either OEM or aftermarket. Then seal off the area as best you can with sheet metal so as to create a "funnel" where air can only pass through the cooler, and will then exhaust to the front wheel area ...simply cut metal with tinsnips to shape, and then screw/fasten to a convenient spot in said area. Alternatively (or in addition), you can also add an electric fan, and wire yourself a manual switch (you'll prob only need to turn it on when in slow or stopped traffic).
FWIW, I have a carrera cooler w/o fan, nicely "sealed" intake area, and a large opening (a tad larger than a foglight hole) in the valance. My SC is a 98% track car, and even on a short track on a 100-degree day, redlining to each corner, the oil stays below 9:00 ...this is makes me happy. Hope this helps you a bit
Edward
The 28-row brass cooler is also often called the "euro cooler" as they were OE on some years, can't recall which, though.
The US OEM trombone cooler, IMHO, is nearly useless, and completely so in traffic. The 28-row is a huge improvement, but you still need to get air in there or it'll be only a marginal improvment. Lots of folks put a discreet opening (say, 1.5"x6") into the uppermost part of the valance (so it is right underneath the bumper line) to help get some airflow. Remember that any cooler is only as good as its airflow: get cool stuff in and, and give the hot stuff a place to escape. Others have used a Carrera valance as it has a foglight opening, and they simply do not mount the foglight ...now there's an opening
But for a real fix, you need to get a real finned cooler, aka "Carrera cooler," either OEM or aftermarket. Then seal off the area as best you can with sheet metal so as to create a "funnel" where air can only pass through the cooler, and will then exhaust to the front wheel area ...simply cut metal with tinsnips to shape, and then screw/fasten to a convenient spot in said area. Alternatively (or in addition), you can also add an electric fan, and wire yourself a manual switch (you'll prob only need to turn it on when in slow or stopped traffic).
FWIW, I have a carrera cooler w/o fan, nicely "sealed" intake area, and a large opening (a tad larger than a foglight hole) in the valance. My SC is a 98% track car, and even on a short track on a 100-degree day, redlining to each corner, the oil stays below 9:00 ...this is makes me happy. Hope this helps you a bit
Edward
06-13-2008, 04:26 PM
#17
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What if you used the place under the front of the car where the second ac radiator is at? I was planning on removing mine along with all the other ac stuff. I would think that it would get enough air flow there to stay cool. Plus when you remove the rear ac radiator it would also improve cooling to the engine.
Hi Shane,
Sure. Give me a chance to get in there (maybe later today or tomorrow?) and I'll snap a few pics to give you an idea of what I did. Look at my avatar, though: you can just barely make out a trapazoid-shaped opening in the valance ...maybe 25% larger than a foglight hole.
Edward
06-13-2008, 05:09 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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Edward...what if you mounted it in the same fasion that the condensor is mounted, flat against the underside...not facing forward like you suggest? I would still think that it would get enough cross airflow for the street. Plus I dont think there would have to be any fab work except to run the oil lines.
Are there units you can buy that can hook up using the same oil lines in the fender if you were to replace the trombone? Perhaps this is the easiest way like you stated earlier.
Are there units you can buy that can hook up using the same oil lines in the fender if you were to replace the trombone? Perhaps this is the easiest way like you stated earlier.
06-13-2008, 11:34 PM
#20
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For Shane and anyone else interested
Front, of course. That side-marker scoop is kind of cool in that I got it from a guy that fabricates carbon fiber
From the wheel well. Note the sheet metal that is screwed into the body (can't recall "to what" it is screwed into, though). But it was easy.
Same view, a bit lower to show the "rock guard." The OEM Carrera cooler has a stone guard that shields the cooler from debris kickup. I made my own: an air vent from home depot trimmed with tinsnips ...couple of bucks
View from the front, shot through my intake opening. Note the cooler on the top-left. All the silver is bent sheetmetal and screwed down.
Same view, but shot inside the opening. Note the metal bottom: that's the "floor" of the opening.
What you cannot see (and I can't photograph well without removing the wheel and valance) is that the entire "cavity" where air flows into is sealed. I also used foam insulation, the kind you find in home depot to insulate drain pipes, to further seal the sheetmetal that abuts against the body areas to make for a tighter air seal.
The result is that air entering through the sizable intakes can ONLY find one escape: through the oil cooler, exhausting out the back, into the wheel well area.
All in all, a pretty easy job. Mostly trial/error in cutting then fitting the sheetmetal. Certainly not the most attractive visually, but dang is it effective. Hope that helps you a bit.
Edward
Front, of course. That side-marker scoop is kind of cool in that I got it from a guy that fabricates carbon fiber
From the wheel well. Note the sheet metal that is screwed into the body (can't recall "to what" it is screwed into, though). But it was easy.
Same view, a bit lower to show the "rock guard." The OEM Carrera cooler has a stone guard that shields the cooler from debris kickup. I made my own: an air vent from home depot trimmed with tinsnips ...couple of bucks
View from the front, shot through my intake opening. Note the cooler on the top-left. All the silver is bent sheetmetal and screwed down.
Same view, but shot inside the opening. Note the metal bottom: that's the "floor" of the opening.
What you cannot see (and I can't photograph well without removing the wheel and valance) is that the entire "cavity" where air flows into is sealed. I also used foam insulation, the kind you find in home depot to insulate drain pipes, to further seal the sheetmetal that abuts against the body areas to make for a tighter air seal.
The result is that air entering through the sizable intakes can ONLY find one escape: through the oil cooler, exhausting out the back, into the wheel well area.
All in all, a pretty easy job. Mostly trial/error in cutting then fitting the sheetmetal. Certainly not the most attractive visually, but dang is it effective. Hope that helps you a bit.
Edward
06-13-2008, 11:41 PM
#21
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Michael,
Yup. That's the point: you take the existing lines to the trombone and fit the carrera cooler. It really is as simple as that. There's also a bracket to buy IIRC. Heck, this alone may fix 90% of folks' temp issues, and so forgo all the "sealing" I described in the previous post. Mine is a track car, and thus has to endure sustained high rpms and the resultant heat, so I wanted to get it right the first time. I chose not to run a fan because that's prob only useful with little-to-no air moving through, as in traffic; and a fan may arguably impede airflow through the cooler vs having no fan when driving at speed.
Edward
Yup. That's the point: you take the existing lines to the trombone and fit the carrera cooler. It really is as simple as that. There's also a bracket to buy IIRC. Heck, this alone may fix 90% of folks' temp issues, and so forgo all the "sealing" I described in the previous post. Mine is a track car, and thus has to endure sustained high rpms and the resultant heat, so I wanted to get it right the first time. I chose not to run a fan because that's prob only useful with little-to-no air moving through, as in traffic; and a fan may arguably impede airflow through the cooler vs having no fan when driving at speed.
Edward
06-14-2008, 01:11 AM
#22
Poseur
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I think the best right front oil cooler was the highly finned Behr. It was a common oil cooler for those of us in hot climates to switch to from the useless trombone loop cooler. It was the most efficient convection cooler available in those days,--probably still so. Found on early 1970s RSR models, and centrally mounted. For the 911SC it would go in place of the trombone,--if the correct length/model.
06-14-2008, 01:27 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
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Anybody ever try one of these?
From Performance Products web site...
Compact Oil Cooler
$249.95
Need that extra margin of safety? Get the compact cooler and worry no more. Road and bench tests have shown a 15 degree reduction in oil temperature using the compact cooler. Installed during oil changes it only takes a few minutes and uses existing oil lines and fittings. The free flowing oil cooler is 13 inches long and 3 inches in diameter and has over 500sq inches of exterior surface area, with over 300sq inches on the inside to ensure fast and efficient heat transfer. The aluminum oil cooler is tested to 300 PSI. Installation instructions and hardware included.
From Performance Products web site...
Compact Oil Cooler
$249.95
Need that extra margin of safety? Get the compact cooler and worry no more. Road and bench tests have shown a 15 degree reduction in oil temperature using the compact cooler. Installed during oil changes it only takes a few minutes and uses existing oil lines and fittings. The free flowing oil cooler is 13 inches long and 3 inches in diameter and has over 500sq inches of exterior surface area, with over 300sq inches on the inside to ensure fast and efficient heat transfer. The aluminum oil cooler is tested to 300 PSI. Installation instructions and hardware included.
06-14-2008, 11:40 AM
#24
Track Day
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Michael, sounds good dosen't it, but in real world application not worth consideration. Multiple posts discussing on other 911 forums, consensus save your $.
06-14-2008, 12:59 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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Yeah in theory it looks reasonable, but 15 degrees is not much, plus its still cramped into the already warm engine bay...would not think it would be that effective. They also sell these ribbed fin covered slips that slide over your oil filter...said to give you about 8 degrees cooling. lol.
I would think that using a front bumper scoop alone would give you enough airflow over the trombone cooler...at least for a street only car. Am I wrong?
I would think that using a front bumper scoop alone would give you enough airflow over the trombone cooler...at least for a street only car. Am I wrong?
06-15-2008, 12:49 PM
#26
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Yes, it's normal. These air-cooled cars were not meant to idle for long periods of time. I would recommend that anything over 235, and you should just pull over and shut the engine off for 5 minutes. You can also buy a new BMW thermal switch and fan for the front oil cooler. Do a search on this if you want more info.
