Amber Gramps

Just put it into prospective, Matt....

the U.S. government used to pay my way in life and I can do it.....

The government of Canada trust you with a multi-million dollar airplane. 6 bolt should be a piece of cake. and heck, you can spell.

imcarthur

Pete

Other than a desire for originality, what is the advantage of OEM lines (& the exertions required to replace them)? The braided hose was easy to work with & is safe & secure from my (and others) experiences & the pressures involved are not that high etc.

Ian

Peter Zimmermann

Ian: OK, this is not going to be easy to reply to. As I posted above, I saw a critical after market component literally fall apart in front of me, and I've watched that same type of hose/line being built by an "expert" hose builder. Let's just say that I was not impressed. Realistically, the chance of having a problem with braided lines is probably quite small, unfortunately there is little or no quality control that watches over their production. I fully realize that all hose/line manufacturers are not cut from the same cloth, and there are probably those out there that don't have failures. But without a quality control system, like the ones who test and approve custom wheels, for instance, how do you know what's good, and which one might spray gasoline all over your engine at a really unfortunate time? Call it my paranoia, but over my entire career I've tried to do every repair with my customer's safety as the priority. Back in the day I accepted countless cars for service that had fuel hoses replaced, without clamps. Before those cars left my shop every connection had a proper clamp added. That was on cars with carburetors that ran on only 3.5 lbs pressure. During the years since then Porsche has made continuous improvements to fuel system components, improving them and their delivery systems as items received the OK from their engineers. They developed plastic lines for use on high-pressure CIS cars, virtually ending fuel hose failure. Even then they continued to improve the fuel lines used in the primary heat zone, the engine compartment. With the introduction of the 3.2 cars one could see the attention to detail, and safety, that Porsche used to try to eliminate any possible safety concerns. I don't consider 2.0 + bar low pressure, and the Carrera system has to maintain at least 1.0 bar for 20 minutes after engine shut off. I completely trust Porsche's engineers and manufacturing processes, they are the ones who have everything at stake, and must build it better - better than anyone else can.

imcarthur

Fair enough, Pete.

But I feel confident in my fuel lines. I bought them from a reputable supplier & they were from a high quality manufacturer. The fittings are also high precision. And it went together easily without giving me the slightest whimper of indecision or doubt. Braided hoses are used extensively in the automotive & hydraulics industries with confidence. I see your viewpoint, but feel that there is more that one way to skin a cat, sometimes. With equal result.

Ian

old man neri

Hmmm, I think I might take a short strole tomorrow and see what type of fuel lines are used on the airplanes and helos here. I will ask the mechanics where they can them and if they fab them up here.

Brads911sc

So let me get this straight for clarification... you buy a car that was quadruple the price of a "normal" car, where a engine rebuild is 10k. a trans rebuild is 5k, a set of tires is 1k, an oil change is pushing $100, a new targa top is 10-12k, a set of carpets is $700... and you are looking to save a couple hundred on fuel lines? if you cant afford to own and maintain a p car... then dont buy one... i am with Pete on this one... Changing all the fuel lines on a car = $599... and they will last another 20 years... that a whopping $30 a year... how much did you save? how much time spent? time = money... I dont get the whole aftermarket argument on these types of parts... If you want to buy a cheap hood shock, or carpet set, i understand... but we are talking fuel lines here...

old man neri

Brad,

To each their own. Not all of us have money coming out of our ears. I would never buy a new targa top for 12K, tires for 1K? Not for me. And the oil change for me is pushing $150 these days.

If I can get the equal quality or better component for less price then I will. I certainly will explore the possibility and ask questions about it. I am not trying to cut corners I just was not convinced one was getting something better just because it was a OE part.

-matt

Brads911sc

Matt,

I understand... Money doesnt grow on trees... On the other hand... I do think some parts should not be replaced with unknown quality aftermarket parts... Anything that is critical to your safety.... Fuel, Brakes would be a couple.... I wouldnt compromise on... just my humble opinion...

imcarthur

OK. We've established that I'm a cheap bastard who's hell bent on ruining a fine automobile, is that right?

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

Ian

zach13

Doug: Wow, that is much less than I expected. In short you are talking about about 25 hours.

I was envisaging being locked in the garage for weeks on end, covered in grease and swearing a lot.

Well after some thought I have decided to get down and do it myself (in no small part due to all the encouragement from you guys).

Will start of tomorrow by taking a couple of pictures of the engine prior to dismantling.

(that way at least I have a reference point of how it looked before I went to work on it )

Have already put together a shopping list of tools I need to get for the job, including the dental mirror you guys talked about.

Is there any lubricants, cleaning agents etc I need to get for the job?

Amber Gramps

You may not even be in for 25 hours. I was looking for the head temp sensor in the wrong place and spent several hours doing things that didn't need doing. I also polished out gunk from each intake port and cleaned the manifold out.

Tools: for the airbox and other spots 8mm and 10mm drivers (shaped like screwdrivers) are a huge help. the 8mm allen wrenches, 8mm allen sockets, swivel drives are a huge plus for the manifold. the fuel lines are going to need a range of open end wrenches. I'm thinking 2x15mm, 17mm. Keep a car handy for running to the tool krib. Aerosol brake cleaner and blue shop towel are a must. blue tape for the intake ports when the manifold is off. A board for placing and labeling nuts and bolts. A camera. Large hook shaped pliers for the springs under the manifold. for a couple bucks I found a telescoping magnet/ LED light that can be used for the bolts and washers that get dropped in bad places. I'll go out tonight and check to see what I've forgotten. I think you will be fine.

Pete, did you have any secret weapon tools for this job?

zach13, most of all don't worry about the disagreements the guys may have on parts. use the best money can buy.

Peter Zimmermann

Not really, you've got it pretty much covered. A couple of your suggestions - swivel tools and blue towels - are excellent. One thing that I do different is to put a balled up paper towel in each intake port instead of tape (for me it's faster).

Zach: You might find a couple of really nasty intake ports, when cleaning them try to minimize the amount of cleaning fluid that gets past the intake valve into the chamber (putting the engine on TDC for the cylinder that you're cleaning the port for can help because the intake valve will be closed). When you order your parts, check with your P-car dealer on an update for the washers that go under your intake manifold nuts - for some reason I have a very foggy memory that Porsche changed something in that regard. Oh, before you start the job put the car where it can sit disassembled for a while, and disconnect the battery ground strap.

zach13

Thanks Doug:

1) 8 & 10mm drivers. What are these?
2) 8mm allen wrench. Got that.
3) 8mm allen socket. Got that.
4) Swivel drives. What are these?
5) Open end wrenches. Got that.
6) Extra car for keeping tools in. Got that.
7) Aerosol brake cleaner. Got that.
8) Blue tape. Got that.
9) Nut board. Got that.
10) Camera. Charged and ready
11) Hook pliers. Got that.
12) Telecsope magnet. Got that.

Got pretty much everything on your list, only unsure about pt. 1 and 4, not quite sure what they are, probably used to them being called something else.

zach13

Thanks for the help Pete.

Will do as you say with the paper towel and with the washers for my intake manifold nuts. Am getting the parts for this from PP (of course )

Sorry for these newbie questions.
1. Could you explain what the swivel tools are, am not sure, they are probably called something else here.
2. When you wrote "putting the engine on TDC for the cylinder that you're cleaning the port for can help because the intake valve will be closed", what is TDC?
3. Also what should I use to clean the intake ports, is the Aerosol Brake Cleaner ok for this?

Peter Zimmermann

1. Swivel tools (wiggle-wobbles, extensions with ends designed to allow the socket to move but not fall off, etc.), in whatever combo needed, are designed to allow you to loosen a fastener where access is limited, by attacking the fastener from an angle. For example, I have a set of metric allen sockets (3/8" drive) that have long, straight hex sections (about 4") that are fixed inside of, and protrude from a socket. The business end is not a regular hex (allen wrench) shape, they are machined to go into a hex-head fastener at an angle. If you could arrange to meet with a SnapOn salesman at a local shop you can see them - the proper size would make manifold nut removal easier.

2. TDC = Top Dead Center. Start with the engine on Cyl #1 using the plug wire and crank pulley marks - rotate the engine manually until you reach the cylinder that you're working with. Firing order = 1,6,2,4,3,5.

3. I've always used rags/brushes and lacquer thinner, some people are sensitive to the stuff, but I find it's better than todays aerosol cleaners. If you do use parts cleaner spray it on your rag/brush, not down into the port.

If Pelican is not aware of the manifold nut washer issue call the dealer - I definitely remember something changed, perhaps flat washers were added, perhaps the flat washers became thicker...?