kravdog

Well folks, thanks for all of your advise on my first post. I have to admit, I am feeling a little bit like Lucke27's replacement for the first timer in search of a car!

So, I have found 1987 911 cab with appx 115,000 miles - a little more than I had in my mind. No reported accidents. Clean title. No major service.

The owner is the 3rd owner, and has owned it for 10 yrs, 50k miles. Service that the owner has had done includes:

new clutch @ 65k miles
new tires, brakes, rotors, calipers @ 110k

At this point, I have asked the seller to disclose anything he thinks might pop up on a PPI...

So, my question for my experts:

What issues, services, and expenses would you be looking for in a car as described?

2002M3Drew

I don't think that there is really anything anyone can accurately predict by means of an internet message board on a 21 year old Porsche like this (even with a good board like this one). There is just too much ground to cover. The start/finish line of this transaction should be a thorough PPI by a mechanic that you trust.

In the PPI, you should make sure they do the compression and leakdown tests to help check detect issues with head studs (now breaking in Carreras as they did in SCs). They should also pull the lower valve covers and take a look.

The costs and issues and required service could vary from nothing to $10,000.

Good luck...hope it works out!

Daniel Dudley

I would want to know how much oil it uses between changes.

PPI, PPI, PPI

And ''The Used 911 Story'' by Pete Zimmerman pretty much says it all.

kravdog

Owner says the car goes thru a quart of oil every 500-1000 miles. Seems like a big range to me. From 500 being a symptom of valve work needed to 1000 being acceptable.

I asked for disclosure of anything a PPI might produce and have not heard back from the seller since....

The hunt is far more fun than I ever thought it could be.

2002M3Drew

Amen, brother! The hunt is a lot of fun.

Jay H

Drew is right, there is just too much stuff to cover on these old cars. How much is this car? How nice does it appear? How does it drive? How many 911's have you been in and how does this one compare to others?

The only repair that really means something at this point is the brake repair. If that was done right and done thoroughly, this car should be fine in the brake department for quite a few more miles.

The clutch now has 50,000 miles on it and could go at any time (from age, wear or abuse or all of the above). It could also last another 50,000 miles with the right operator...

It's a crap shoot on the rest of the car if there is no other service history. If you are unfamiliar with 911's, a PPI is mandatory unless you can stomach large repair bills. This car could be very nice with few issues arrising in the near future, or it could cost quite a bit to get back up to your standards.

A quart of oil every 500 miles (if that is actually true) is getting to be excessive and may be a deal breaker depending on the price of the car. I'd look into that quite a bit...

When I buy an older 911, I personally get the following done by my mechanic or do it myself to insure the car is safe and performing correctly.

- Perform a full 15k service including flushing of all fluids (brake and trans), filter changes, valve adjustment, plug change, belt changes, etc.

- Replace wear items such as tie rod ends, suspension bushings and brake components. Get the car aligned and dropped slightly in the front for a downward rake. I typically toss whatever set of tires are on the car if they are getting worn and put what I like on the car unless the tires are very fresh and have recent date stamps on the sidewalls.

- For cars with 100k or more and no history, I'd plan on a fresh alternator and starter motor.

- I always set aside money for a clutch job on older 911's. You just have no clue as to how the previous operator treated that clutch. My last clutch replacement on my '84 cost about $2500 which included a new clutch cable and helper spring.

- Replace any aging and/or cracked rubber components such oil lines and gaskets.

- Scrub the living heck out of the interior, treat all the surfaces with Vinlex, leather conditioner and detail the paint to a high standard.

I personally plan on dumping $2000 to $3000 into a 911 once I get 'em home regardless of how nice they are. Something always fails and my standards are typically higher than most. Your mileage may differ.

Good luck!

Jay
90 964, 84 3.2

kravdog

thanks for all the info.

At this point, I have determined that the current owner is just an old dude with not a whole lot of knowledge about his cars (also owns a 964). He just does what his mechanic tells him he needs to.

Being that this car is 1000 miles from me, I have offered $16k pending an acceptable PPI. At this price, I will have $10-15k available to put into the car over the next couple of years as necessary.

911vet

I bought my 87 sight-unseen. I'd never done such a thing, but I thought I had found the right car. My friend had a co-worker in Atlanta who did a test drive so I had some first-hand, unbiased input. Then, I had a PPI from an independent Porsche/Audi/VW mechanic. After all that, I bought the car over the phone. It was scary, but it worked out.

PPI showed: front and rear deck lids needed new shocks, needed new tie rods, one leaking shock, needed new brake pads, oozing leak around gas tank drain, cockpit AC fan motor squeels when turned on and indicates it will need replaced "sometime" ($500), paint scrape on front bumper, dent in front valance, had minor repaint on rear quarter panel.

On the plus side: no oil leaks, great compression test, "sniffer" test was clean, tight steering, tranny, and clutch. Interior good (not exceptional). Paint great.

For reference, my car had 113K at time of sale. It was a one-owner car that was traded in (so I didn't get service records). Asking price was $17,900. I paid $16,900.

It uses about 1qrt oil/1000 miles best I can tell. It doesn't leak. Never see a drop ever.

Since purchase, I have done the following:
1) upgraded the door hinge with brace kit $89
2) replaced cylinder head temperature sensor (not sure it was bad, questionable) $73
3) installed new shifter bushings because my shifter was sloppy and sometimes refused to go into gears $40
4) replaced front and rear deck lid shocks $38
5) adjusted valves $10 for tool, $25 for valve covers
6) new horn relay $24
7) fuel filter $18
8) oil filter and oil $79
9) spark plugs, distributor, rotor $70
10) tranny oil $53

Did all that work myself, so no labor charges.
They charged me $400 to do the tie rods, which was a rip off.

I have discovered a bad CV boot, so I will be fixing that. I'm doing both of the boots while I have the axle out. Cost is about $30. Again, no labor charges.

Still to do: brake pads, new shocks

There ya go. I have about $700 in parts so far.
I will agree with eveyone else. Factor in $2000 - 3000 for repairs/upgrades the first year.

I think your offering price sounds about right if the PPI is without major issues.

Good luck. I love my 87 so far. And I've had fun doing the projects on it.

mnmasotto

With 115K on the motor (assuming no prior top end work) the valve guides are near or past their usual 1987 life expectancy. Having had many prior 911's I think the oil usage range the owner quoted is quite broad. If the car is using a quart of oil every 500 mile the valve guides are likely shot. I replaced mine at 600 miles/quart. My mechanic said that they were in terrible shape. Anyhow good luck. I absolutely love my 1987 and would not trade it for the world.

mnmasotto

With 115K on the motor (assuming no prior top end work) the valve guides are near or past their usual 1987 life expectancy. Having had many prior 911's I think the oil usage range the owner quoted is quite broad. If the car is using a quart of oil every 500 mile the valve guides are likely shot. I replaced mine at 600 miles/quart. My mechanic said that they were in terrible shape. Anyhow good luck. I absolutely love my 1987 and would not trade it for the world.

kravdog

this is my thought as well. interested to see what becomes of the PPI.

Mike Murphy

It sounds like this was a well kept car and the owners simply performed the routine maintenance on it. That's good.

The biggest issue I would be worried about is the oil consumption. Oil consumption never gets better, only worse, so I would look at where that could be coming from. A top-end rebuild can cost $4k-$6k, but the car might just be leaking from the seals. Seals can cost $1,000 by the time you get them all to stop leaking on a 20-yr-old car.

I would inspect the CV joints and other critical suspension parts.

Otherwise, you might also inspect every switch, blower motor and control for the HVAC/AC system. If you want AC to work on this car, make sure you test it before you buy it. If you get no cold air, you're looking at a $500-$2,000 repair.

Oh, and check the fuse box for cleanliness and any signs that it has been tampered with. You don't want a Mickey Mouse concoction.

Good luck!!

kravdog

Thanks again to everyone for their advice. Rennlist rocks.

Quick update. The seller has been out of town during this initial contact. We have been planning on a PPI once he gets back next week. But, here is an email that I got last night:

"After talking with you for the past few weeks, I've realized that you may know more about Porsche's that I do. So I called my Porsche guy and he is going to look my car over and tell me why the engine is burning, from what you have told me, too much oil. I will let you know the results by the end of next week and then you can decide on an inspection at that time. I'm dropping the car to him on Monday after I get back"

So, it looks like he now wants a pre-selling-inspection... I dont think it hurts anything at this point. What's your take?

Bob S

I agree with the others, with that kind of mileage it's probably due for a top end rebuild... Mine was ready at 72,000. I learned ( the hard way ) that the most important thing in buying a used Porsche is the PPI from a reputable shop . Good Luck

Paul K

FWIW, I bought an '89 unseen, after a PPI. I used the results to work the price down from 18.5k to 16k. Any chance you can post some pictures?

Cheers,

Paul.