Victory Motors
10-20-2007, 10:30 AM
#166
Team Owner
hey on a somewhat related subject .. I heard thet the only one that can close a thread is the guy tha started it ( outside of a mod ) is that true ? if So I think the guy who started it should have he official honour of closing it ... i like the subject but hate seeing " victory " every time I log on ..
ice
ice
10-20-2007, 06:38 PM
#167
Instructor
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Following up on my previous post may be interesting for all, if potentially less fun for me. Fortunately, at my age, which in response to someone's question earlier is 59, I have become comfortable with laughing at myself...
I am not a disinterested party in that I just bought a 74 911 from Victory Motors (the lime green one still on their website this morning) and expect delivery this Tuesday. I have bought a fair number of cars over the internet in the past few years (Ferrari 512TR, BMW E30 M3, BMW 850, BMW 2002, Rx7, Porsche Turbo, Lotus Europa, and an old Ducatti). I have honestly never had a bad experience and will certainly report in here after I take delivery.
I spend a lot of time picking a car in the first place just through the pictures and information available. While a good detailer can make an engine bay presentable, any engine bay that is dirty and clearly not cared for means to me that the car isn't anything I'm interested in. Exhaustive documentation from the previoius owners is valuable and given how many great cars can be found on the net -- if you're willing to wait -- you can wait for one with solid documentation. The other criticl thing to me is to be able to talk at length to the owner or if from a dealer from the previous owner who sold it to the dealer. I'm certainly older and fairly worldly-wise, but find certainly I base a good deal of my final decision on what the previous owner says.
Now, what I look for in a car may make this different for me. In most instances with collectible driver cars, the most expensive thing to make right is bodywork, paint, upholstery, carpets, rtrim bits... chrome. The engines and drive train are easier and far less expensive to fix.
However, since I've been on boards and forums over the years for the different cars that I own, I find there are always these vociferous threads about this or that bad guy. Bad guys need to get identified and put out of business and where that can be done through the net, its great. Around 1999 a guy named Peter Farrell of "Peter Farrell Supercars or PFS", who had had several of his tuner cars in all the magazines, swapped my pristine motor for a really worn, tired, old motor during what was supposed to be an engine upgrade. When I caught him and he wouldn't fix it, I spread the word over the net. He promptly sued me for $4mm and I counter sued fro consumer fraud, etc. Two years and several hundred thousand dollars later, I won everything and he no longer has that business. I'm not sure what happened to him.
Now, if Victory Motorcars, or any other dealer, consistently defrauds, cheats, or otherwise bamboozles customers, my experience has been that the market fixes it eventually. Its very hard for me to understand how someone stays in business and grows that business over several decades if they are truly "bad people". In business there are of course some exceptions, but by and large that's what happens. So, why is Victory in business and growing and profitable? Why do they have a "satisfactory" BBB rating after all the purported wrong-doings? Why is their eBay rating perfect? But, to me from 30,000 feet, I come back to why are they doing so well?
Does this mean the fellow is heading for saint-hood? I doubt sincerely there are many car dealers who consumers would ever view as paragons of virtue and complete integrity, though I think I may know a few.
I spent a lot of time talking to Robert. Like some other "positive" posters, I found him very knowledgeable and thus far very fair. For example, I could see thaqt the interior of the car I was buying had new seat covers and carpets. I could see that the old headliner had aged and turned that yellow it does where it joins the C-pillar. I asked him to replace it with OEM headliner and paid him for it. On a call bak, he told me he wasn't happy with the condition of the dash, which had a crack I couldn't see in the pictures and he said he would replace it with a new dash at his expense. I was 100% comfortable with the condition of the body and interior. Then, I sopke to the previous owner who had nothing but good to say about the car and the drivetrain, which I was especially interested in
So, I bought the car and expect to see it Tuesday. I expect it to be what I understand from the process it to be. Again, I would be happy to report back on this transaction on Tuesday or Wednesday. There are many truly bad men in the world doing whatever they can to make money without any regard for ethics. Amoral sociopaths often oblivious to the fact they are evil or doing anything wrong. Church-going family men. Unfortunately, its up to us to avoid them or put them out of business. Equally unfortunately, as I get older, I increasingly feel that our consumer-obssessed society increasingly resorts to "whining" when they don't get exactly what they want when they want it, much like children who have not been properly disciplined.
Gordon
I am not a disinterested party in that I just bought a 74 911 from Victory Motors (the lime green one still on their website this morning) and expect delivery this Tuesday. I have bought a fair number of cars over the internet in the past few years (Ferrari 512TR, BMW E30 M3, BMW 850, BMW 2002, Rx7, Porsche Turbo, Lotus Europa, and an old Ducatti). I have honestly never had a bad experience and will certainly report in here after I take delivery.
I spend a lot of time picking a car in the first place just through the pictures and information available. While a good detailer can make an engine bay presentable, any engine bay that is dirty and clearly not cared for means to me that the car isn't anything I'm interested in. Exhaustive documentation from the previoius owners is valuable and given how many great cars can be found on the net -- if you're willing to wait -- you can wait for one with solid documentation. The other criticl thing to me is to be able to talk at length to the owner or if from a dealer from the previous owner who sold it to the dealer. I'm certainly older and fairly worldly-wise, but find certainly I base a good deal of my final decision on what the previous owner says.
Now, what I look for in a car may make this different for me. In most instances with collectible driver cars, the most expensive thing to make right is bodywork, paint, upholstery, carpets, rtrim bits... chrome. The engines and drive train are easier and far less expensive to fix.
However, since I've been on boards and forums over the years for the different cars that I own, I find there are always these vociferous threads about this or that bad guy. Bad guys need to get identified and put out of business and where that can be done through the net, its great. Around 1999 a guy named Peter Farrell of "Peter Farrell Supercars or PFS", who had had several of his tuner cars in all the magazines, swapped my pristine motor for a really worn, tired, old motor during what was supposed to be an engine upgrade. When I caught him and he wouldn't fix it, I spread the word over the net. He promptly sued me for $4mm and I counter sued fro consumer fraud, etc. Two years and several hundred thousand dollars later, I won everything and he no longer has that business. I'm not sure what happened to him.
Now, if Victory Motorcars, or any other dealer, consistently defrauds, cheats, or otherwise bamboozles customers, my experience has been that the market fixes it eventually. Its very hard for me to understand how someone stays in business and grows that business over several decades if they are truly "bad people". In business there are of course some exceptions, but by and large that's what happens. So, why is Victory in business and growing and profitable? Why do they have a "satisfactory" BBB rating after all the purported wrong-doings? Why is their eBay rating perfect? But, to me from 30,000 feet, I come back to why are they doing so well?
Does this mean the fellow is heading for saint-hood? I doubt sincerely there are many car dealers who consumers would ever view as paragons of virtue and complete integrity, though I think I may know a few.
I spent a lot of time talking to Robert. Like some other "positive" posters, I found him very knowledgeable and thus far very fair. For example, I could see thaqt the interior of the car I was buying had new seat covers and carpets. I could see that the old headliner had aged and turned that yellow it does where it joins the C-pillar. I asked him to replace it with OEM headliner and paid him for it. On a call bak, he told me he wasn't happy with the condition of the dash, which had a crack I couldn't see in the pictures and he said he would replace it with a new dash at his expense. I was 100% comfortable with the condition of the body and interior. Then, I sopke to the previous owner who had nothing but good to say about the car and the drivetrain, which I was especially interested in
So, I bought the car and expect to see it Tuesday. I expect it to be what I understand from the process it to be. Again, I would be happy to report back on this transaction on Tuesday or Wednesday. There are many truly bad men in the world doing whatever they can to make money without any regard for ethics. Amoral sociopaths often oblivious to the fact they are evil or doing anything wrong. Church-going family men. Unfortunately, its up to us to avoid them or put them out of business. Equally unfortunately, as I get older, I increasingly feel that our consumer-obssessed society increasingly resorts to "whining" when they don't get exactly what they want when they want it, much like children who have not been properly disciplined.
Gordon
10-20-2007, 07:12 PM
#168
Drifting
Very nice post.
From what I have read here an on other boards it's not that Victory purposely sells bad cars. It's just that one should throughly research a car before purchasing it as you have stated. Don't make a decision solely based on the dealer's word. Some smaller Porsche dealers and service shops have great reps.
Perhaps it's that Victory is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, older Porsche dealers around and that's why it gets so much attention. They do a lot of business. And as you, and others, have stated, one is more likely to make a post about how bad an experience they have had as oppose to a post about how they got what they were promised.
I have never dealt with Victory nor do I pretend to have. Every time someone asks about them I just point them to other threads and tell them to do some research.
In any case I hope your purchase works out great, either way keep us updated on it from time to time. It would be great to know.
Just my $0.02
From what I have read here an on other boards it's not that Victory purposely sells bad cars. It's just that one should throughly research a car before purchasing it as you have stated. Don't make a decision solely based on the dealer's word. Some smaller Porsche dealers and service shops have great reps.
Perhaps it's that Victory is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, older Porsche dealers around and that's why it gets so much attention. They do a lot of business. And as you, and others, have stated, one is more likely to make a post about how bad an experience they have had as oppose to a post about how they got what they were promised.
I have never dealt with Victory nor do I pretend to have. Every time someone asks about them I just point them to other threads and tell them to do some research.
In any case I hope your purchase works out great, either way keep us updated on it from time to time. It would be great to know.
Just my $0.02
10-20-2007, 09:20 PM
#169
Gordon,
Thanks for a thoughtful post. The only point I make and it’s the same one I make all the time when buying a car from a reseller, just do your homework.
I don’t know if VMC is growing, or how profitable it is, and I don’t know if they’re doing well. I am not sure how anyone can know that.
I don’t think the people are screaming about the quality of the cars. If you’re buying a used car you need to go into the deal with your eyes open. Virtually every reseller is going to sell a klunker once in a while, that’s the nature of the business. What happens after this is discovered is what makes people cringe with VMC.
As far as his eBay rating goes there have in the past been people who have stated first hand here that they were strong armed into a positive rating after the deal was struck. In the past he’s had numerous comments retracted. The point being there are ways to maintain a 100% rating on eBay.
My questions still stand:
1) Why does he buy on eBay under several names and sell under only a single different name?
2) Why does he buy stamped service books, records, glove box folders and manuals off eBay?
3) Why are so many cars “just sold” when a buyer inquires about one on his website only to see the same car there for months and months?
4) Why has he posted on several web boards pretending to be a satisfied customer?
5) Why does he place the word “warrantee” in the header of some eBay listings when NO car he sells comes with one, he’ll only sell you an after market one?
It concerns me when those questions are out there. It makes me think twice when he’s giving me the PO’s personal info for me to contact him: is this really the PO ? If so how do I know and why would the PO bother to field calls on the car and not sell it himself?
I don’t see how these threads are “whining”. One thing the internet has done is leveled the playing field and tightened up the spreads in all markets. In the new car business there is no more question about price, it’s easy to work the internet and get the same price from everyone. The used car business is slightly different, the spreads are wider and the product is not standardized. In the end it’s about service and how you treat your customers. Why shouldn’t the consumer get exactly what he wants in today’s market?
It’s a global market place now, all areas of the country and most of the world for that matter, are easily assessable now to buy a car and have it shipped anywhere.
I have said it many times, if he has a car which you absolutely must have then there is no harm in looking at it and inquiring about it. Just make certain you go in with your eyes WIDE open. IMHO the tactics listed above are not really what I am looking for in a car salesman, so much so that I personally would not do business with him. But hey, that’s my opinion I wish you luck with your purchase and I hope it’s a fantastic car and you enjoy it in good health.
Tr220
Thanks for a thoughtful post. The only point I make and it’s the same one I make all the time when buying a car from a reseller, just do your homework.
I don’t know if VMC is growing, or how profitable it is, and I don’t know if they’re doing well. I am not sure how anyone can know that.
I don’t think the people are screaming about the quality of the cars. If you’re buying a used car you need to go into the deal with your eyes open. Virtually every reseller is going to sell a klunker once in a while, that’s the nature of the business. What happens after this is discovered is what makes people cringe with VMC.
As far as his eBay rating goes there have in the past been people who have stated first hand here that they were strong armed into a positive rating after the deal was struck. In the past he’s had numerous comments retracted. The point being there are ways to maintain a 100% rating on eBay.
My questions still stand:
1) Why does he buy on eBay under several names and sell under only a single different name?
2) Why does he buy stamped service books, records, glove box folders and manuals off eBay?
3) Why are so many cars “just sold” when a buyer inquires about one on his website only to see the same car there for months and months?
4) Why has he posted on several web boards pretending to be a satisfied customer?
5) Why does he place the word “warrantee” in the header of some eBay listings when NO car he sells comes with one, he’ll only sell you an after market one?
It concerns me when those questions are out there. It makes me think twice when he’s giving me the PO’s personal info for me to contact him: is this really the PO ? If so how do I know and why would the PO bother to field calls on the car and not sell it himself?
I don’t see how these threads are “whining”. One thing the internet has done is leveled the playing field and tightened up the spreads in all markets. In the new car business there is no more question about price, it’s easy to work the internet and get the same price from everyone. The used car business is slightly different, the spreads are wider and the product is not standardized. In the end it’s about service and how you treat your customers. Why shouldn’t the consumer get exactly what he wants in today’s market?
It’s a global market place now, all areas of the country and most of the world for that matter, are easily assessable now to buy a car and have it shipped anywhere.
I have said it many times, if he has a car which you absolutely must have then there is no harm in looking at it and inquiring about it. Just make certain you go in with your eyes WIDE open. IMHO the tactics listed above are not really what I am looking for in a car salesman, so much so that I personally would not do business with him. But hey, that’s my opinion I wish you luck with your purchase and I hope it’s a fantastic car and you enjoy it in good health.
Tr220
Last edited by Trader220; 10-20-2007 at 09:43 PM.
10-20-2007, 11:03 PM
#171
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I would at least take a stab at many of the questions you rasied as issues from a purely socratic perspective:
Why would he buy under many names and sell under one? How about because he thinks or knows that if people knew he was buying or bidding that they would either push the bidding more or that it would telegraph his intentions to his competitors, who, btw, may well be doing the exact same thing. He obviously wants to sell under the one name to build the name recognition.
If I were selling older air cooled Porsches, I would want each car to have an owners manual and service book. I would bet that buying and selling 40 older cars a month month-in and month-out, you would find a certain % of the cars without anything. It would make the car appear and actually be "more complete". Now, if he were to try to pass off these service books as those belonging to the car being sold, that would be wrong. However, unless he is also forging vins and such in the service books, even this would be rather transparent and would of course be absolute proof of consumer fraud. So, if someone has such informastion, I hope they are piursuing it. You cannot give the consumer fraudulent information regarding the service history of the car. So, I doubt he is doing that, but may well be wrong, not knowing the facts.
Does the person or people who have reported that they called and the car was just sold... call back several times and find its still "just sold" when its been sitting there all along, or, did someone just call the once and was told it was sold and he then later found out it was sitting there for months? Because, many used car sales go south, just like any other large transaction. I've known of cars that sellers thought were sold several times and they never left the dealer's lot. So, again, without knowing more details, I can construct some reasons here.
On the posting on boards as a satisfied cutomer, again, I don't know the facts, but, assuming that's what he did, he may see that as a way to fight the bad thread publicity without getting into the fray. Notice that most dealers don't participate on the boards directly, though some do. Most I have talked to over the years just don't want to get into these threads where they really can't win and the more they say the more they get slammed. Its like trying to argue with a good standup comedian... I've seen dealers or tuners loved one week and hated and reviled the next. Again, without seeing the documentary threads related to this, I would only say that while I can understand someone doing this, it clearly doesn't represent the standards of ethical practice one would hope for. However, I finance very very large commercial real estate properties. Let me just comment that the standard of ethics commonly found in these circles would generally make a used car dealer blush...
I have a lot less problem with him putting "Warantee" at the top of any ads. Why shouldn't he? I would assume he is advertising the fact that a warrantee is available for 24 months or 30,000 miles on a seriously old car. I would much rather pay $2000 for a written warranty than haggle with someone who gave me a free warrantee for 90 days or whatever. I may be seriously missing something here if there a dealers, much less private individuals, who are offering meaningful year-long warrantees when you buy their 30 year old Porsche.
Anyway, I attempted to answer your questions somewhat for sport and somewhat to see what substance is here and am not certain I did a really terrible job, though it doesn't warrant any more attention I'm sure. This took a bit of time to write and I don't want to waste any more time socratically, when I may be just about to get hosed by the fellow I am defending...
I have to say that I am really anticipating the arrival of my car with a lot more interest and excitement than I had before! After I get completely hosed, I will come back with a great deal of humility and join in the blatant trashing of the fellow...
Enjoy your weekends.
Gordon
Why would he buy under many names and sell under one? How about because he thinks or knows that if people knew he was buying or bidding that they would either push the bidding more or that it would telegraph his intentions to his competitors, who, btw, may well be doing the exact same thing. He obviously wants to sell under the one name to build the name recognition.
If I were selling older air cooled Porsches, I would want each car to have an owners manual and service book. I would bet that buying and selling 40 older cars a month month-in and month-out, you would find a certain % of the cars without anything. It would make the car appear and actually be "more complete". Now, if he were to try to pass off these service books as those belonging to the car being sold, that would be wrong. However, unless he is also forging vins and such in the service books, even this would be rather transparent and would of course be absolute proof of consumer fraud. So, if someone has such informastion, I hope they are piursuing it. You cannot give the consumer fraudulent information regarding the service history of the car. So, I doubt he is doing that, but may well be wrong, not knowing the facts.
Does the person or people who have reported that they called and the car was just sold... call back several times and find its still "just sold" when its been sitting there all along, or, did someone just call the once and was told it was sold and he then later found out it was sitting there for months? Because, many used car sales go south, just like any other large transaction. I've known of cars that sellers thought were sold several times and they never left the dealer's lot. So, again, without knowing more details, I can construct some reasons here.
On the posting on boards as a satisfied cutomer, again, I don't know the facts, but, assuming that's what he did, he may see that as a way to fight the bad thread publicity without getting into the fray. Notice that most dealers don't participate on the boards directly, though some do. Most I have talked to over the years just don't want to get into these threads where they really can't win and the more they say the more they get slammed. Its like trying to argue with a good standup comedian... I've seen dealers or tuners loved one week and hated and reviled the next. Again, without seeing the documentary threads related to this, I would only say that while I can understand someone doing this, it clearly doesn't represent the standards of ethical practice one would hope for. However, I finance very very large commercial real estate properties. Let me just comment that the standard of ethics commonly found in these circles would generally make a used car dealer blush...
I have a lot less problem with him putting "Warantee" at the top of any ads. Why shouldn't he? I would assume he is advertising the fact that a warrantee is available for 24 months or 30,000 miles on a seriously old car. I would much rather pay $2000 for a written warranty than haggle with someone who gave me a free warrantee for 90 days or whatever. I may be seriously missing something here if there a dealers, much less private individuals, who are offering meaningful year-long warrantees when you buy their 30 year old Porsche.
Anyway, I attempted to answer your questions somewhat for sport and somewhat to see what substance is here and am not certain I did a really terrible job, though it doesn't warrant any more attention I'm sure. This took a bit of time to write and I don't want to waste any more time socratically, when I may be just about to get hosed by the fellow I am defending...
I have to say that I am really anticipating the arrival of my car with a lot more interest and excitement than I had before! After I get completely hosed, I will come back with a great deal of humility and join in the blatant trashing of the fellow...
Enjoy your weekends.
Gordon
10-21-2007, 01:49 PM
#174
We can agree to disagree there are many facets to every stone.
“Why would he buy under many names and sell under one? How about because he thinks or knows that if people knew he was buying or bidding that they would either push the bidding more or that it would telegraph his intentions to his competitors, who, btw, may well be doing the exact same thing. He obviously wants to sell under the one name to build the name recognition.”
Or maybe he does not want people to know he’s flipping eBay cars and they’re really not the hand seleceted cream of the crop that’s implied?
“If I were selling older air cooled Porsches, I would want each car to have an owners manual and service book. I would bet that buying and selling 40 older cars a month month-in and month-out, you would find a certain % of the cars without anything. It would make the car appear and actually be "more complete". Now, if he were to try to pass off these service books as those belonging to the car being sold, that would be wrong. However, unless he is also forging vins and such in the service books, even this would be rather transparent and would of course be absolute proof of consumer fraud. So, if someone has such informastion, I hope they are piursuing it. You cannot give the consumer fraudulent information regarding the service history of the car. So, I doubt he is doing that, but may well be wrong, not knowing the facts.”
I don’t believe for a moment he sells 40 cars a month. I agree that a % wont have their books or records. Substituting another cars books and records IMHO is just more deceptive business practice.
"Does the person or people who have reported that they called and the car was just sold... call back several times and find its still "just sold" when its been sitting there all along, or, did someone just call the once and was told it was sold and he then later found out it was sitting there for months? Because, many used car sales go south, just like any other large transaction. I've known of cars that sellers thought were sold several times and they never left the dealer's lot. So, again, without knowing more details, I can construct some reasons here."
Its not one person, its many. The Search function on these boards can save you a lot of time. You’ll find over and over that threads about cars that were “just sold” only to remain on the website for sometimes a full year. Yes a full year as someone who bought a car from VCM and saw his car posted on the site for 12 months had documented. I am not just tossing stones here this is very well documented.
“On the posting on boards as a satisfied cutomer, again, I don't know the facts, but, assuming that's what he did, he may see that as a way to fight the bad thread publicity without getting into the fray. Notice that most dealers don't participate on the boards directly, though some do. Most I have talked to over the years just don't want to get into these threads where they really can't win and the more they say the more they get slammed. Its like trying to argue with a good standup comedian... I've seen dealers or tuners loved one week and hated and reviled the next. Again, without seeing the documentary threads related to this, I would only say that while I can understand someone doing this, it clearly doesn't represent the standards of ethical practice one would hope for. However, I finance very very large commercial real estate properties. Let me just comment that the standard of ethics commonly found in these circles would generally make a used car dealer blush...”
The thread starter here aside. (although the 2:03 and then 2:04 am posts by you and he are raising some eyebrows) .. Its been very well documented that he’s posed as a satisfied customer on several boards. You may find that as an acceptable way to oppose all the negative publicity he gets on these boards but I personally find that tactic a digreace. Pretending to be a satisfied client and going on web boards to play that game, again, deceptive business practices. I’ve been a market maker on several options exchanges I have a seen the full gambit of business ethics, that’s not the point we’re discussing.
“I have a lot less problem with him putting "Warantee" at the top of any ads. Why shouldn't he? I would assume he is advertising the fact that a warrantee is available for 24 months or 30,000 miles on a seriously old car. I would much rather pay $2000 for a written warranty than haggle with someone who gave me a free warrantee for 90 days or whatever. I may be seriously missing something here if there a dealers, much less private individuals, who are offering meaningful year-long warrantees when you buy their 30 year old Porsche.”
Okay I respect that fact you don’t have a problem with the implication that these cars come with an warrantee. As I have clearly stated I find is yet again another case of lousey business practices to imply that there is a warrantee. Why is it that all the other dealers of cars on eBay some how see fit to say “warrantee available” ? You also may want to do some searching here on rennlist and on pelican. There are lengthy threads on how shotty that warrantee once purchased is and how VCM ran from the issue when the warrantee company told the consumer tuff luck. I believe there is a law suit still pending.
I am not quite sure why you chose to answer those questions they’re rhetorical, to make a point. Anyone such as yourself can fabricate an answer for VCM but why are/would you?
The finest point on the whole thread was made by old man neri who wrote...
“Just look at the different reps between Victory and someone like say midwestperformance. Clearly something must be different.”
Why does this business draw so much negative attention ?
Have a nice afternoon gmonsen/jacksonrw
“Why would he buy under many names and sell under one? How about because he thinks or knows that if people knew he was buying or bidding that they would either push the bidding more or that it would telegraph his intentions to his competitors, who, btw, may well be doing the exact same thing. He obviously wants to sell under the one name to build the name recognition.”
Or maybe he does not want people to know he’s flipping eBay cars and they’re really not the hand seleceted cream of the crop that’s implied?
“If I were selling older air cooled Porsches, I would want each car to have an owners manual and service book. I would bet that buying and selling 40 older cars a month month-in and month-out, you would find a certain % of the cars without anything. It would make the car appear and actually be "more complete". Now, if he were to try to pass off these service books as those belonging to the car being sold, that would be wrong. However, unless he is also forging vins and such in the service books, even this would be rather transparent and would of course be absolute proof of consumer fraud. So, if someone has such informastion, I hope they are piursuing it. You cannot give the consumer fraudulent information regarding the service history of the car. So, I doubt he is doing that, but may well be wrong, not knowing the facts.”
I don’t believe for a moment he sells 40 cars a month. I agree that a % wont have their books or records. Substituting another cars books and records IMHO is just more deceptive business practice.
"Does the person or people who have reported that they called and the car was just sold... call back several times and find its still "just sold" when its been sitting there all along, or, did someone just call the once and was told it was sold and he then later found out it was sitting there for months? Because, many used car sales go south, just like any other large transaction. I've known of cars that sellers thought were sold several times and they never left the dealer's lot. So, again, without knowing more details, I can construct some reasons here."
Its not one person, its many. The Search function on these boards can save you a lot of time. You’ll find over and over that threads about cars that were “just sold” only to remain on the website for sometimes a full year. Yes a full year as someone who bought a car from VCM and saw his car posted on the site for 12 months had documented. I am not just tossing stones here this is very well documented.
“On the posting on boards as a satisfied cutomer, again, I don't know the facts, but, assuming that's what he did, he may see that as a way to fight the bad thread publicity without getting into the fray. Notice that most dealers don't participate on the boards directly, though some do. Most I have talked to over the years just don't want to get into these threads where they really can't win and the more they say the more they get slammed. Its like trying to argue with a good standup comedian... I've seen dealers or tuners loved one week and hated and reviled the next. Again, without seeing the documentary threads related to this, I would only say that while I can understand someone doing this, it clearly doesn't represent the standards of ethical practice one would hope for. However, I finance very very large commercial real estate properties. Let me just comment that the standard of ethics commonly found in these circles would generally make a used car dealer blush...”
The thread starter here aside. (although the 2:03 and then 2:04 am posts by you and he are raising some eyebrows) .. Its been very well documented that he’s posed as a satisfied customer on several boards. You may find that as an acceptable way to oppose all the negative publicity he gets on these boards but I personally find that tactic a digreace. Pretending to be a satisfied client and going on web boards to play that game, again, deceptive business practices. I’ve been a market maker on several options exchanges I have a seen the full gambit of business ethics, that’s not the point we’re discussing.
“I have a lot less problem with him putting "Warantee" at the top of any ads. Why shouldn't he? I would assume he is advertising the fact that a warrantee is available for 24 months or 30,000 miles on a seriously old car. I would much rather pay $2000 for a written warranty than haggle with someone who gave me a free warrantee for 90 days or whatever. I may be seriously missing something here if there a dealers, much less private individuals, who are offering meaningful year-long warrantees when you buy their 30 year old Porsche.”
Okay I respect that fact you don’t have a problem with the implication that these cars come with an warrantee. As I have clearly stated I find is yet again another case of lousey business practices to imply that there is a warrantee. Why is it that all the other dealers of cars on eBay some how see fit to say “warrantee available” ? You also may want to do some searching here on rennlist and on pelican. There are lengthy threads on how shotty that warrantee once purchased is and how VCM ran from the issue when the warrantee company told the consumer tuff luck. I believe there is a law suit still pending.
I am not quite sure why you chose to answer those questions they’re rhetorical, to make a point. Anyone such as yourself can fabricate an answer for VCM but why are/would you?
The finest point on the whole thread was made by old man neri who wrote...
“Just look at the different reps between Victory and someone like say midwestperformance. Clearly something must be different.”
Why does this business draw so much negative attention ?
Have a nice afternoon gmonsen/jacksonrw
10-21-2007, 02:35 PM
#175
Racer
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10-21-2007, 08:20 PM
#177
Three Wheelin'
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thanks Trader20 for the well wishes.....
Gordon, I have never met you until this tthread and we live on extreme distances...but i will make you a bet....i bet ya Trader20 never has bought a car from Victory.
haha
this thread is THIS long because you all have nothing better to talk about. I just got off the track after a spectacular weekend and I am just now putting F1 on my TEVO.
I will re-read this thread someday and crack up to the waste of time it truly was.
There is some much better things to discuss.
Hey Trader-----have a great week
Gordon, I have never met you until this tthread and we live on extreme distances...but i will make you a bet....i bet ya Trader20 never has bought a car from Victory.
haha
this thread is THIS long because you all have nothing better to talk about. I just got off the track after a spectacular weekend and I am just now putting F1 on my TEVO.
I will re-read this thread someday and crack up to the waste of time it truly was.
There is some much better things to discuss.
Hey Trader-----have a great week
10-21-2007, 10:00 PM
#179
Hey I guess it was just a freaky coincidence those to posts showed up like that late at night east coast time just 1 minute apart. _hit happens I guess.
Before I read many of the opinions around the internet I called and inquired about a couple of cars from VMC. I didn’t buy either and it’s not important why since I can’t document the reasons. They were strictly initial phone calls as inquiry.
I'll repeat again what I have said all along. If he has a car that you MUST have there is NO harm in calling to see if it’s actually in stock, and to learn more about it. Just be sure you have a full handle on the business practices there and you do your home work. A truly independent PPI is also a must IMHO, in all cases.
Hope all our readers had a great weekend. Looking forward to an interesting week in the global capital markets.
Before I read many of the opinions around the internet I called and inquired about a couple of cars from VMC. I didn’t buy either and it’s not important why since I can’t document the reasons. They were strictly initial phone calls as inquiry.
I'll repeat again what I have said all along. If he has a car that you MUST have there is NO harm in calling to see if it’s actually in stock, and to learn more about it. Just be sure you have a full handle on the business practices there and you do your home work. A truly independent PPI is also a must IMHO, in all cases.
Hope all our readers had a great weekend. Looking forward to an interesting week in the global capital markets.
