Howard Nelson

I drive my '72 911 some on the street, to the track, DE, autocross, and perhaps eventually Club Race. I have added 21F and 27R torsion bars, Koni Sport shocks, and Yoko A032R 205/55-16 tires on 16x7 rims. My plan is to upgrade anti-sway bars next (I currently have (stock) 15mm F&R). In general, I have read that "you get what you pay for", but what specifically is the downside to Weltmeister? I want something of high quality, but there is no need for something that my abilities or car will never appreciate. Also, based on your experience, what sizes are recommended? 22mm seems like a big jump from 15 - does the range of adjustability cover everything in between? I would appreciate any thoughts on the brand or size I should be considering. Thanks.

Howard

My opinion is if you aren't planning on all out racing you could just move up to factory sc sway bars or even turbo sway bars for a fraction of the cost of adjustable sway bars.The best adjustable "anti roll " bars, and also the most expensive, are Charlie Bars from Wrightwood Racing, at apprx $1200 f&r. I went with The Racer's Group and they are of high quality and about $800 f&r. As far as size, the bars I'm running are 25.4 mm or 1" diameter. My experience with Weltmeister is limited to front monoball upper strut mounts which failed after 2 events (cast units...no replacement for breakeage)then I replaced them with billet Racer's Group parts, and so far so good. Back to "sway bars", the best bars are through the body in front, with re-enforcement,in the rear the stock mounts should also be re-enforced if you run monster bars. Hope I helped, not confused you !

Bill Gregory

Howard,

I have the Weltmeisters, and they have worked fine for me for several years, with around 15 track days each year. I installed 22mm front and rear, with the reinforcing brackets for the inner fender by the gas tank. They are noisy - you can adjust them to not make so much racket, but you still know you have them there. The rear design has caused at least one Rennlister a problem in that the end piece bolts into a bolt which is a replacement bolt on the rear swing arm. Anyhow, this person had problems, as I recall, stripping the replacement bolt that the rear end bolt bolted into. I'm probably not describing it too well, but he ended up going with another brand.

You might consider the 19mm size instead of the 22mm. Look up what Porsche used in it's '72 era racers, as a guide. The 1974 Carrera RS 3.0 used 18mm sway bars front and rear. On the production front, the 1974-1977 911 and 911S came standard with front 16 and none on the rear, and had optional 20mm/18mm front/rear. The 76-77 Carrera used 20mm front and 18mm rear with 19mm front torsion bars and 23mm rear torsion bars. The 75-76 turbo used front and rear 10mm with 19mm front torsions and 26mm rear torsions. This is just to give you and idea of the ranges used, understanding that each of the suspensions is different.

As the other Howard said, the Charlie bars are the top of the line, the Racers Group makes good bars too. There are others that make good bars also. Your 15's may already be the adjustable sways, so your a-arm wouldn't have the bracket to move to the SC sways. The other thing that is nice about the adjustable sway bars is the adjustability. A very close to neutral handling 911 is a wonderful thing.

As an aside, I don't know if you can fit 225/50x16's on 8" rims on your narrow body rear, but you may want to look into that.

Reg

Hi

My 70T has no bars, so if you are upgrading let me know what you want for the stock units!

It would be an upgrade for me.

ricks72t

Howard,
Also went through the same process as you. Just finished installing a set of Racers Group 22mm front and rear sway bars. Wow!!! There is a significant difference in the cornering capability of the car without a degradation in ride quality. I liked the TRG bars ($1000) because of the fit and finish of the hardware and the indexed bar ends. Make sure you order the correct droplinks for your early 911.

Regards,
Rick

Howard Nelson

Thanks for the replys. I have ordered Weltmeister 22mm front and rear. (Paragon Products $279, $249). TRG and Charlie Bars are very nice, but I have concluded that the Weltmeisters will be effective in my application and offer the best value. Now I have a couple of weeks to get them installed (along with corner balance, alignment, new brake fluid, etc) before the big weekend at Road America.

Bill - 8" wheels won't fit on my car. I'm actually using Boxter wheels with 40mm offset that work really well. (I know, I miss the Fuchs.) If I get adventurous, I may try 225/50 on the 7" wheels.

Reg - I'm going to hold onto my stock bars for a little while, but I'll let you know when I'm looking to sell.

Howard

Reg

I found some SC bars for sale. Does anyone know if they will bolt on ok in my 70 T? I see mounts on my lower suspension arms but wouldnt want to get something that wouldnt work on the car.

Thanks!

Bill Gregory

Reg,

If you look at your front suspension by the strut, you should see a fitting where a vertical rod would come off the a-arm to a lever, which would be connected to a bar going through the body. That's how the sway bar you don't have would attach. The SC style bar attaches differently. Instead of the through-the-body design, it had a different mounting on the a-arm, and goes below the body. I believe they changed styles from 1974 forwards.

To mount the non-adjustable SC sway bar, you'd either need to replace your existing a-arm or grind off the existing fitting and weld on one to support the SC bar, plus a couple of additional fittings to hold the bar to the body. FWIW, since you should have the the connections there for either an original or adjustable sway bar, I'd consider that for the sway bar solution.

addictionms

One other source of some really nice bars ths Smart Racing Products, I have the front bar from The Racers Group and I am going to upgrade to the ones from Smart Racing. Jerry Woods et al at Smart Racing have changed the front bar to have a different pick up point, which causes less binding of the bar over a wider range.

just to represent the other extreme, I am building a track only car and I will have 23mm front and 31mm rear torsion bars, and 31 mm front and rear swaybars.

Jim

Reg

Thanks Bill.

I did not know that the bars were fundamentally so different. I guess I should look for some 68 to 73 bars to be safe.

Is the rear setup more simple than the front? Or are they different from 74+ as well.

Bill Gregory

Reg,

There were some changes in the rear in 1974, but it is much closer to the pre-1974, and may be an easy plug in fit. I haven't done this myself, however, the fittings are much closer to each other than the fronts.