rockpicker

A while back, I made an offer on the black 87 Carrera listed at $19k. Seller came back at 17.5k. Maintenance is as follows (from when current owner took possession)

45307 oil change, maintenance service
53280 Brake fluid remewal, oil change
64393 Tune-up, oil change, R/R air filter and fuel filter, R/R belts, new O2 sensor, adjust valves
64682 R/R A/C blower motor
69895 R/R alternator
69895 Install new battery
72149 R/R valve cover gaskets, Oil return lines, Left CV boot
72197 Compression check
72325 Charge AC
72743 4 new tires, wheel alignment
73768 Oil change
76425 R/R oil return lines, oil change
76806 Clean and test injectors, R/R plugs, R/R dist. cap and rotor, R/R head temp. sensor, adjust wheel bearings, Adjust valves and check compression, R/R intake gaskets and insulators
78115 Add freon, R/R drivers window switch
81026 Oil change
82776 R/R rear brake pars and machine rotors
86747 Oil change
90160 Install new battery
90421 Oil change, R/R air filter and fuel filter, R/R spark plugs
91200 Install 2 rear tires, front alignment and wheel balance\
92213 R/R Front brakes and rotors, Oil change, R/R belts, R/R oil resevoir hose
92613 R/R DME relay
92788 R/R ignition cables, R/R steering wheel bushings
95470 Oil change, R/R oil pressure switch
96420 Install 2 front tires
96433 Oil change
97666 Oil change

No clutch replacement is a concern of mine

Based on this, how do you feel this car compares to an 85 Euro Carrera with 1/2 the mileage? I'm not much on the wing, and don't know is the 915 is really the big deal some make it out to be, but this car is 3k more and in CA.

I haven't been able to drive one of these cars. I want light and responsive; doesn't necessarily need to be a muscle car. Can anybody who has owned one of the 84-89 Carreras and a 66-73 car offer their input on the drivability issues and feel of the car? If I for the 87 I would go for the 7" and 9" combo, more for looks that anything. Does this significantly deaden the feel? I am flying to Philly later this week to look at a 73 RS clone with a 3.2. The owner also has an 87 Cab, so hopefully I will be able to answer a lot of my own questions as I drive both. Money isn't the issue, as I could buy a new one if I wanted, but I like classics a little rough around the edges; sort of like me

Thank you all for your help, patience and time. Finally, anybody want to trade my 1999 Cat 302.5 mini excavator towards their car?


Matt

old man neri

Hi,

I think I know the carrera you are talking about, it's in CT right? Ya, I had the same concern. The other big concern I would have about that mileage would be it needing a top end job soon. 100K miles is a lot on a one clutch. I was about to get a PPI done on the car but I backed out and moved onto what I felt/still feel is a better deal. The owner might be getting a little anxious seeing as summer is almost over and not to many people shop for sports cars in CT during the winter. You could try asking him that if the PPI comes back showing that it needs a new clutch if he would be willing to budge on the price. I don't know the exact price on a new clutch for one of those cars but I know it is not cheap.

The other thing I can suggest is that you buy Pete Zimmerman's book. It will help answer some of your questions with regards to the difference between the different years. Also, I strongly recommend you get PPI done on any car before purchasing it.

Cheers!

theiceman

Personally I would not be as concerned about the clutch relatively speaking. I am sure when my clutch goes I will do it myself and there are enough rennlist guiys that live within driving distance to help if I got stuck. Taking the engine out is no big deal if you are mechanically inclined and have a place to work. then you put a clutch on and put it back.
I would be be more concerned with the "top end" and if it uses a lot of oil.

Daniel Dudley

I really have a hard time buying a car without seeing/driving it. I have done it, and it is an iffy proposition. Some people are dead accurate with the description, others ought to be dead if they swore on their lives. Prehaps a lister could look at the car for you, and help you to decide if a PPI is in order.

Diamond Blue

The clutch on a 87-89 G50 car will cost around $1100 just for parts, including the g50 update parts. If you don't do it yourself add the cost of an engine drop to get it done. Top end would be at least another $3000 unless you do it yourself. Both of these will most likey need to be done sooner then later. Have some one from here or Pelican look at and drive the car if you get to the point of making an offer on one of the cars.

Mike Murphy

Well, it's kind of difficult to gauge the clutch on these cars, even with a PPI, because you have to drop the engine and transmission to inspect the clutch. The other problem is that even if the clutch is in good shape, you never know when the rubber-center is going to come apart.

A clutch can last 10-200,000 miles, depending on how someone drives it. I would get in the car with the owner, let him drive it, and see how much clutch he uses. How he drives it will also be an indication of how well he takes car of the car.

You'll pay 3k more in CA than you would for the same car in the Midwest or East coast. California doesn't have any salt, which is good, but many other owners don't drive their cars in the winter anyway, so you're basically looking at the same car in many respects, regardless of location. Something to consider.

Mike Murphy

Oh, you moved onto a better deal, huh?! Heck yes, you did . BTW, the clutch job starts at about $2000 for these cars, and that's a good price, IMO. The mechanic has to drop the engine to change the clutch. Otherwise, it would be a pretty easy job. Once the engine is dropped, most people will take it upon themselves to have more work performed, since the engine is exposed.

rockpicker

Yes, the car is in CT. I appreciate the feedback stating exactly what my gut has been telling me. I didn't realize clutch parts were that pricey (although fortunately I am able to perform the labor myself).

That being said, for a car thats not a daily driver can any of you comment on the different driving dynamics of a Carrera vs. say, a 73 RS clone with the same 3.2 power. Seems to be a ton of RS, RSR clones for sale right now for less cash than most of the 87-89s are commanding.

Matt

Mike Murphy

I've driven only SCs, but I can tell you that a 73RS clone is probably going to be much more exciting that a 3.2. Automobile magazine rated the 72 RS one of the top 5 drivers' cars of all time. The 72RS came with 210hp and weighed 2150lbs, so a 3.2 stock power plant will have the same power, albeit more torque, so you're looking at quite an exciting and thrilling ride.

I doubt, however, that these clones are exactly like the original car, now valued at $250,000. The reason why the clones are cheaper is because like most Porsches, all-original, non-molested cars are more valuable. Many times, the conversions are not performed with the highest level of attention to detail. If they were, they would cost a great deal more than a stock 3.2.

But if it's fun to drive and considerably cheaper, it's hard to argue with that.

1986951

I can give you a "Seat Of The Pants" comparison between a 1973 911E, with S option pack, and a 1983 911SC with 16's, Sport Suspension and so forth...

Both cars offer a nice, "raw around the edges" driving experience, and the suspension was very similar, with a pretty firm, bounce the kidneys, feel to them. The "E" felt the need for more revs to keep things moving, while the SC torque gives you a bit more flexibility, and encourages one to stand on it early when coming out of a hard corner, feeling very solid and planted. Of course, tires can make a big diff in this regard...

Stock seats are better in the SC, but if you had Sport Seats in the early car, they would be very suitable... otherwise, you will be slip sliding around in the "E" (or RS Clone)...

Just as a comparison, I have run my SC with a group of PCA'ers and have handily kept up with 993's and Boxster "S" cars, both in acceleration and high speed cruising. I do have some seat time in an '87 M491 Cab, and found it to be a little too "heavy" for my taste, but it was running oversize Speedlines with some weird BFG tire... too big for the car, in my opinion. But, Cabs tend to be a bit heavy when compared with a nice SC Coupe, so there you are...

I may be in the minority, but I am not in favor of "Outlaws" (older Porsches with newer engines) If Porsche didn't build it, I am always concerned about who did and what went into the job... guess I have seen too many American HotRods that fell apart with the first full throttle upshift (a 1970 Mach 1 428 comes readily to mind! Clutch, PP and a rod all exited the car simultaneously... most of which went right thru the passenger side footwell!).

Not sure if this helped in your thinking, but the late SC's are a very tough combo, and really, really fun to drive... fast! And my Better Half says the SC Seats are the most comfortable Porsche seats she has ever had the pleasure to occupy!

KC911

Forget the clutch imo...I wouldn't touch a car that went that long between oil changes (assuming the log is correct). Take a look at the initial mileage intervals, 8K, 11K, 8K...that's neglect in my book.

Keith
'88 CE coupe

old man neri

It could be that simple log changes just weren't logged. I saw the rest of the log and it shows 40K without an oil change.......that I don't believe.