ked

"...to recap, a nice looking, but questionably repainted (and questionable who-knows-what-else) 86 carera, of unclear title held by a fellow who, while very nice, was reluctant about the PPI.
All this for $25.9k. Oh, 126,000 kms on the clock.
Am I being a nervous nellie here?"

Not at all. I'd consider myself a fool to pursue a 20 yr old 911 under these circumstances.

WitchDoctor

Thanks for affirming my spider senses, guys.

I'm seeing a 1980 SC on Friday. 86k miles, guy claims it's "perfect". Asking $21k.
Based on what I'm learning here, I don't plan to offer that, even if I'm utterly impressed with the car.

-Brent

Mike Murphy

I've never seen a perfect car. Maybe in concours or in a museum...

Look, what's going to happen is that the more cars you look at and drive, the more knowledgeable you're going to be. You'll find cars priced the same vary in quality from great to crap, and then you'll find the same quality car priced $5k more than the next one.

Trust yourself and look at as many as you can

veggiecar300

That seems like too much to me. Have you seen the SC for sale at the Imperial Palace in Las Vegas? That was an '83 with 120Kmiles for $15K - though I don't see it listed on their website anymore.

I guess it wasn't perfect though, but thought it would be a reference for you - for what it's worth.

Am I right in thinking that SC 's don't usually get in the $20K range? I thought they were pretty much around $10K-18K or so.

WitchDoctor

Vegg man,

I'm only getting a sense of values, but your sense seems about right. I note, though, that in the Calgary area, people are really asking too much. Especially for 944s, which I was initially interested in. Not as bad for 911s, but still pretty bad. There are two 1980 SC's for sale, one asking $21, the other seeking $20. These are advertised on Autotrader.ca. The second of these says, somewhat ominously, "serious enquiries only." Can't blame a guy if he doesn't want every 16 year old with a freshly minted licence coming to try his car. But, by "serious" I'm a bit put off with a concern that there might be a sense of entitlement about his asking price.

I won't let it stop me. I'll prob'ly call today, and see if I can see his car on Saturday.

LaughaC

Other than shipping costs, are import duties excessive? There are plenty of good, affordable P-cars in California, ripe for the picking.

veggiecar300

IMHO $21K is okay for a really good 3.2 but SC should be less. Do you have Craigslist up there?

WitchDoctor

We've got a Craiglist entry for Calgary. One of those two SC's is cross posted there, and there theres a couple crappy 944's listed.

Hey, get this, a guy listed a 944 in Autotrader for 6k. It doesn't work. Guess that's why he's selling it for such a song!

If I get to talking dollars and cents with either of these SC guys, I'll let them know that I'm well aware of prices in the states, and have pretty much made up my mind to shop South of the border, since people around here seem to be listing their 911's for about 133% of their value.

old man neri

6.1% duty, 8% GST, and 6% PST. So 20% in all for Ontario. However, in Calgary I don't think there is PST.

Mike S.

Shop, shop, and shop some more. Be patient. There are gobs of 911's out there, especially if you're willing to look outside your area. But only some are in proper all around shape. Look and drive many before buying one. Get a 911 enthusiast/expert to help you. Educate yourself....Peter's book is a great starting point. Enjoy the hunt.

Not trying to change your mind, but back to your original question. If you're budget is $15K...the right comparison is an '88 944 Turbo S or '89/90 944 Turbo and a SC or 3.2 Carrera. Comparing a 944NA and even a stock '86-'88 951 to '78 - '89 911's isn't a fair $$$ comparison.

I had an excellent condition '88 944 Turbo S for a handful of years. Sold it several years ago. The 951S was chipped. Everything is modern. It's easier and more comfortable to drive briskly with little experience. In stock form, it is meaningfully faster than a stock SC or 80's Carrera around most tracks. And chipped (280 hp)...well the acceleration is a intoxicating when on boost. The pull from normal highway speeds to well into triple digits is amazing. Great brakes, straightforward and crisp handling.

Just bought a mint '83 911. Sport shocks, slightly beefed up bars, headers + 2 in/2 out muffler (about 195 hp). Haven't had it to a track yet, but here are my initial impressions after a couple months of street driving. More linear power delivery. Not the plant your butt in the seat peak acceleration feel of the 951S, but solid and satisfying (for me). Overall a raw older feel. Shifting is not as easy or quick to accomplish, but is fine. Handling and steering feel is very nice. Throttle steer is more noticable than on the 951S (although maybe that's due to the suspension and it's setup...I'm not smart or experienced enough to know though!). Brakes are strong. More than adequate for anything on the street. Engine and exhaust sound is fabulous. Iconic style/lines will get you 10X the stares of the very sharp looking (to me) 951S. Little kids yell out "cool car", middle age old farts like me ask "is that your 911...I love that car."

FYI, I considered buying my old 951S back before I choose to go the 911 route. Even went as far as taking it out for a spin from the fella who bought it from me. Plus, I could have bought it for 2/3 the price I paid for the mint '83 911. Didn't and don't regret it. I'm happy with my decision and trying a new and delicious flavor is fun and different.

Both are great cars...special cars...pick the one that really attract you based on what you think suits you best and spins your propeller fastest. And if you buy a good car as a fair market price, you can always sell it if you tire of it and then go and buy the other model! There will always be buyers for these cars and I suspect their values (for the models and years I mentioned above) will hover around where they are now for the next handful of years.

I think you're going to have fun!!!

Mike

P.S. Don't forget that PPI

WitchDoctor

Good tips and comments on the 944 vs 911, Mike, and on cross border shopping, O.M.Neri and LaughaC. Alberta doesn't have PST, so I'm only looking at GST and duty, I guess.

It's the inconvenience of shopping in the US, but I do have a friend in Portand, where I could drop in, stay a while, and spend time. Were I to find 4 or 5 cars on line worth checking out, it'd be all the excuse I'd need. Plus, he's a car lover from his youth, and would enjoy a visit orgainzed around cars.

Two weeks from now, I'll be in Vancouver. I spend some time lining up a couple "viewings" if I can find any out there, before I go. Don't wanna get stuck with a turkey.

I musta given the impression my budget was 15. Guess cause I was complaining that for 15k, all I can find around here is a turbo 944 with 245,000 kms, and surface rust in three places. Fun car though it was to drive (exhilarating!), I'm not buyin' that cr@p! I'd place my tentative budget at, say 22 or 23. But, I'd go to 25, if the car was super worth it. For a 911. Not a 944 of any description.

Yeah, it's really the 911 that's turning my flywheel. I like the 944 a lot, but I was in love with the 911 when I was a kid, before the 944 was ever invented.

So, I'll report back tomorrow night about how I find this 1980 911SC I'm gonna look at.

I sure appreciate the ongoing advice and encouragement about this I'm getting from all you guys. I shoulda got a 911 ten years ago. Then again, I guess I was in no position.

-Brent

WitchDoctor

Oh, just one more thing. I borrowed a buddy's book about 101 things you can do to your 911 without getting an STD, or some such title, and my son (17) looks at the picture, and said "That's one of my favorite sports cars. It's definitely the nicest looking of the Porsches."

That just about melted my butter. He doesn't even know I'm thinking of getting one. (though surely he suspects something is up with my reading books like this all of a sudden).

That other thread going with stories reminiscing along the lines of "what the Porsche means to me" had some great pictures and tales of early memories, parent-child bonding, etc.

I wouldn't mind at all if this hobby provides a new and enjoyable stage for some more father-son bonding that can carry on for years to come.

Surely you all agree. The reasons for requiring a Porsche are compelling. It would be irresponsible not to proceed!

Mike S.

Brent,

If or when a purchase does happen, I'd love to see the look of surprise on your son's face.

I can't comment on prices and availability in Western Canada, but in the in NW US (Portland), you can get a truely excellent condition 3.0 or 3.2 for the $$$'s you mentioned. In many parts of the US, your budget would buy you a decent '89 - '94 964 (3.4 911).

Certainly keep your eye out for an '87 - '89 G50 gearbox car. Much nicer shifting than the 915 box found in all other 3.0 and 3.2's.

Enjoy the hunt!

Mike

WitchDoctor

Hey Mike,

Good advice. Mebe I'll check Portland/Seattle listings this morning.

I was planning to just pick up my son from work, as usual, in the new car, once I get it. Maybe I can borrow the girlfriends digital video camera, so's I can show you the look on his face.

Graufuchs

My car just before i sold it....what an idiot I was..I want her BACK!!!