1986951

Okay, I have been sort of, half way, kind of looking for something of a different Porsche to add to my stable. Currently own a 968 that is being modded into an Auto-X and DE car. Looked at 993's and even early 996's, but didn't see the value for the bucks, plus the engine issues with the 996's have turned me off.

Along comes an acquaintance and offers me his 1983 SC, with 60K, two owner, with all service records by the book right back to day one. Color is not my first choice, (an odd green over brown), but appears to be, and he says it is original paint, and in tip top condition. In fact, originality is one of the issues... apparently Everything is original, including the clutch, etc. Sort of good, but sort of bad...

Interior is nice, with correct patina on Driver's Seat, etc. No dash damage, original Bluapunkt (like I said, everything!) Engine compartment looks about right for 60K. Belly is clean and dry...

1. What mechanical issues should I look out for?

2. What is a fair "Friend to Friend" price for this car? Not looking to make him rich, but don't want to cheat the guy either... He is thinking somewhere around $18K, from what I can gather. Doesn't want to go thru all of the hassle of advertising and showing the car to a bunch of strangers, esp. after some of the carjacking issues we have had around here lately! The local dealer offered him $10K straight out, or $13 on a trade... made disparaging comments about the color...

My last 911S was an awful 2.7 from 1977... need I say more? It tried to commit suicide in my garage by melting the Thermo reactors onto the garage floor, but i caught it just in time. I would have let it burn, but I liked the house!

So, your info and thoughts are appreciated!

Amber Gramps

alot of the guys that really know this car on this board will not comment on prices. that said, some of us that don't know all that much, will. At $18,000 he better be a great friend with a really great car. At $10,000 - $13,000 it is a no brainer, of course you take the car. Just understand that every 911 is a $20,000 car. it will take $10,000 to make a 10,000 a perfect 10.

Amber Gramps

Odd green over brown? Two tone paint? or the brown is on the inside?

Svaha

For that price you should be able to find one in a color you love. Finding another with similar mileage may not be so easy, do you plan on driving it or looking at it in the garage? If it's to be driven much, you may as well look for another that doesn't command a premium for low miles. Why buy one you're not in love with, look around some.
Just my opinion,
Mark

1986951

He, he! Green on the outside, full brown leather interior (tu-tone; that's a good one!)

Not a daily driver, just a weekend fun car. NOT a track-mobile; already have one of those to suck money out of my pocket!

So... why won't knowledgeable owners comment as to what they think is a fair price for a car of this year and mileage??? I would see what Excellence has to say, but don't have my copies available right now... I don't understand why they would not feel free to comment???

And back to original question... what major mechanical issues did the '83 SC's suffer from? I am told the transaxle's can be a bit weak... how long do clutches last, if driven street use only? Are valve adjustments still at 15K? Not concerned about air... never worked well on any of my early 911's, so i wouldn't expect this one to be any better...

Sooo....$18K for a relatively low mile car would be reasonable?

Peter Zimmermann

"carsthatmatter.com" might be a good place to start. Sports Car Market Magazine is also a great resource for pricing info. I've noticed a genuine uptick in SC prices lately, and you're looking at the best of the lot. Original clutch? That's OK, but it'll need one soon, along with a new cable, thermostat o-ring, oil pressure switch, and a few other odds and ends. The trans (referred to as a 915) is not weak, but is very susceptible to damage from incorrect use. You must adapt to a 915, it will not adapt to you. About the only thing that you might consider doing to the car is to update to oil-fed Carrera timing chain tensioners, replace the chain ramps (aka guides) and the cam o-rings. SCs are wonderful, generally bullet-proof cars, but do need certain repairs done at approximate intervals. What you absolutely must do, if nothing other than to preserve your friendship, is to have a PPI done (see my post at the head of this forum). Wow, an original paint '83 with no dash cracks - that's actually closer to fantasy than reality! And remember, you can always dye the interior if you truly hate it, although I don't recommend it. By the way, this car will not have any of the problems you might have had with your '77.

Clipboard

Well...I'm one of those non-priceus commentus guys, so...: what to look for before a PPI?
Rust (yeah, I know about the galvanizing) - look everywhere. Where is the car now and where did it come from? Rust belt? Inside left h/l bucket, under carpets, rockers, etc.
Head studs - 60k means a lot of sitting around for a 25year old car, sitting still for months is death on head studs. And on rear wheel bearings - my next project (at 58k mileage).
Valve adjustments should be in the records.
A/C is 80lbs of useless dead weight.
If you don't like the colour (which is Code _____?) you should be able to find a SC in a more attractive colour (to you) for a price you want to pay. FWIW, look on ebay and you may even find a 3,2 Carrera in a colour you like for what is being asked. I'm not too sure SCs will ever go up in price/value with so many 3,2s out there. Cripes, on ebay you may find a Boxter for what's being asked for this SC.
Just 2cts. Good luck.
john

1986951

Ahhh...okay, now the info is starting to flow!
The Tensioners have been upgraded to Carrera oil fed units, at 46K miles... don't know about the ramps or cam O rings... not mentioned on the work order, so most likely not. The trans shifts just like the one on my '77, which is to say okay, but a long way from my 968 6 speed. No grinds or graunches... Valves were done at 46K also; not since...
Haven't bothered to look at the color code... sort of a light metallic green; interior is fine in a nice caramel brown leather. sort of a British color combo thing going on...

No, haven't see any 3.2 that looks this good for similar money... they are all $22K and up for a decent one, or $18K and up for the "Junk"...
I did think about a Boxster, BUT... 6'4", and they just don't work for me... plus, I really like a sunroof coupe body... never been a convertible guy, FWIW. Had a very nice 1991 S2 Cab, and even that didn't last... something about the cold air whipping around the back of my neck.
Okay, off to the recommended sights, and see what they can tell me... BTW, what did Excellence say a nice 83 coupe is wort these days??? Come on! I know somebody has a copy....

Peter Zimmermann

It's beginning to sound like you've found something very special, a car that will never show up on e-Bay because it will probably always find its next happy home via word of mouth. It also will probably not fit well with most price guides because of its unique, cared-for history. With tensioners already done it will be easy for your PPI mechanic to evaluate any oil leaks - cam o-rings are an easy diagnosis. Chain ramps at 46K miles probably wouldn't have been a concern, if the car continues to be a pleasure car in your hands I wouldn't be concerned about them either. Although there is a slight possibility that the car might have a head stud issue, the chance of it happening on '82/83 cars is far, far less than earlier SCs. For peace of mind it doesn't take long to pull the rocker covers and look. What the heck, have the valves adjusted at the same time because you're going to have to do the 60K mile service anyway (valve adjustment interval is 15K miles).

Edward

Tough call as $18K is a considerable sum for an SC. That said, IF it checks out with a full/proper PPI and you like everything else about the car (features, color, condition, etc.), you really will feel far better about owning such a car that gives you feel-goods everytime you take her out.

Have you ever found that you *don't* regret paying more for something when that something honestly makes you feel good? Conversely, *have* you ever regretted paying less for soemthing since you always have that nagging feeling in the back of your mind like you "should have" gone the extra mile? Once you find the right one (and again, all mechanicals do indeed check out), I'd say buy it and don't look back. Sterling examples are getting harder to come by so you may just have a real gem in your hands. And since you are both friends, see if you could negotiate a more "friendly" price that is a bit more in line with market value ...then go buy him a great lunch in your new SC!

Edward

Peter Zimmermann

Edward: I keep a pretty close eye (for more than 3 years now) on Sports Car Market Magazine's auction reports, which seem to be a good reference on where the market is heading (case in point Speedsters and 356B coupes). So far this year they have reported the sale of two SCs, both USA Lambda ('80-83) cars - one coupe and one Targa. Both were well past 100K miles without rebuilds, neither was exceptional, actually closer to ordinary. The Targa sold for $18K + change, the coupe for $21K + change. Add a 10% buyers premium in each case, and it looks like SCs are movin' on up. And, to think, I took a perfect, black no-sunroof coupe with 35K miles on it and made it into a race car. Sheeeesh... Hey, I'll look through the house to see if I can find my SCMs and get some better details on the two sales.

Peter Zimmermann

OK, I couldn't find the coupe (it might have been reported in 12/06), but I found two others. The above mentioned Targa was a '78, sale reported in the 2/07 edition. Silver/blk, BBS wheels, 91,036 showing on the odo, very nice paint, good gaps. Windshield brightwork scratched, window rubber dry, good dash, console and carpets. They called it a condition 3 (1 is the best on a 5-point system). Sold at $18,480. The other car was an '83 Cabriolet reported in the 3/07 edition. Red/blk, funky wheels and aftermarket stereo, 128,792 showing on the odo, small dents in engine lid and rear bumper rubber. Very good paint, interior shows its age but is still very presentable. Sold at $23,100. Add those buyers premiums, $1848.00 & $2310.00 and we're talking lots of money. I know that geography will still play a part, but two years ago the $10 - 12K SC was the rule - those days might be gone. I called on a '79 sunroof coupe, blk/blk, here in Bakersfield last week. It was listed for $8800 with marginal paint (from 15 feet it looked OK) and a very noisy trans. I declined...

1986951

Okay, thanks folks! All good information... I will continue to do my research, but it sounds like $18K is probably a fair deal, if the PPI checks out okay.
I also appreciate the "Items to look for" info...not having had an SC before, it really helps to know where the issues are! I plan to be on this board frequently with other questions. as they develop!

nkgosselin

18k is what I paid for my 60k original 1983 SC two years ago. Chiffon white paint. Brown sport seat interior. Bilsteins. 100% original except for the chain tensioner upgrade. Original radio. Every single record back to the window sticker. Perfect dash. Perfect sun visors.

Peter Zimmermann

nk: And I'll bet that you could get $22K for it now... maybe much more at the right auction.