vinoviva

As an avid enthisiast and purchaser of 3.2 Carreras, (currently own five, have owned over thirty) I am seeing a definate firming of market value for clean, original 3.2 Carreras. Despite what you may read in the Excellence market reports, it is getting more and more difficult to locate really clean, original cars with reasonably low miles and few modifications. I am not a liscensed car dealer, but I buy and sell Carreras constantly (particulary 87-89). I locate the cleanest original models that I can find, and then replace them when I find another of the same model in even better condition or lower miles. Constantly upgrading from an investment standpoint. My pre-requisites; under-85K on the odometer, original paint, few-if-any modifications save a stereo replacement.
Some observations- totally pure stock cars with documentation represent the best investment. Preferred colors for investment purposes-Black, White,Silver, and RED. These are not my personal favorite colors-it's just that they appeal to the widest number of buyers. (Personal favorite colors are Velvet Red Metallic and Gran Prix White). Coupes are usually stronger than Cabrio's and both command stronger prices than Targas. If you own an original low mile car (particulary an 87-89) form an investment standpoint, it appears that a relative bottom in depreciation has been reached. With good maintenance records and minimal modifications, you may even own an appreciating investment.

Rotten Robby

I bought my White '84 Carrera Coupe last fall... It has 57K miles and complete service records. In fact, if the guy had to replace a bulb, he put the old bulb in the new box and put it in a Rubbermaid container so that the next owner could see the parts that had been replaced.
It actually feels like a new car. I wrote a letter to Excellence (Bruce Anderson) and have not seen my letter in the mag yet but I suspect that it would be in the $22.5 range with 10% allowed for the low miles and original condition, making it somewhere in the $25K range. That is only about $5K under the sticker when it was new.
My plan is to drive it at least once a week. One autocross and maybe two concours events a year, tours...

vinoviva

I doubt if you could put an accurate dollar amount on the fun that you will have with your car. From one perspective, the '84-'86 cars are a great value because some people place too high a premium on the g-50 transmission. Also, sunroof delete coupes are more prevalent in the '84-'86 models- in my experience SR delete models are particulary good investments if they have not been tracked (yet).
If you had to replace your car with another (non-911) I expect you would not get the same fun quotent for the money.

c9c

Hi. I am looking at a 89 SA Carrera to purchase. It has around 32k miles on it and is a one owner. What should I pay for this car in your opinion?

theiceman

The trend is the same here in Canada. 87 -89 3.2s with the g50 transmission and T/L bodies are rare and expensive.
we are also seeing trends with the 993 outselling the 996s, comparative millage and condition. The latest excellence seams to bare this out showing reader reports that are buying 993s for more than 996s...

ventoGT

993s will continue to be worth more than 996s [particularly the run of the mill Carrera models] for good I think. Production numbers are way lower for the 993 than the 996, the 993 is last of the air-cooled model, and many people looking to buy their first Porsche want the visceral feeling rather than the relatively toned down approach of the 996.

My Father bought the 1988 T/L Cab in my signature in 1996 and it currently has just over 16K on the odometer. It's a great car and I am sure it will continue to appreciate. There is something about the older cars that just drives the point about "what Porsche is" home a lot more than the more current models...they are more pure, less compromising, more basic and focused cars. I loved my 996 while I had it, but I will always miss and want my 993 back.

vinoviva

c9c,
Verify the miles, check for maintenance records, and if you lack the expertise yourself-pay for a reputable shop to perform a PPI. If you like the color and options, the mileage is correct, the paint original, and get a clean bill of health on the PPI, you are on solid gound in the mid twenties, maybe even higher. I don't like to give $$ purchase advice because I base my purchase decisions on my own experience--in owning over 30 + 3.2's, I have yet to loose money. I usually will pay more than the ranges in Excellence because my own experience has proven to me just how hard it is to find a really clean, original low mileage car. I recently paid $32,500 for an '88 coupe(sunroof delete) with 27K miles in Venetian Blue on silver leather and felt that I stole the car! Just sold it for $34,000!

Jay H

I love these threads...

I think we are also seeing the price gap widen between very nice 3.2 Carrera's and the higher mileage, driver type cars. As vinoviva says, the low mileage, bone stock, fully original cars will only increase in value. I think that's going to apply to the SC's, 3.2 Carreras and 993's. I've even noticed last spring that demand was up for very clean, low mileage, original 964's.

The driver cars with all their wear and tear and battle scars will probably not bottom out much anymore, but won't gain too much either unless the pristine cars really skyrocket. Cars with 90,000-200,000 miles, a repaint, misc. oil leaks and other minor issues, while still excellent cars to drive around, probably won't make it much out of the mid teens because most enthusiasts know it takes thousands of dollars to restore these cars back into very nice examples.

For example, my '84 Carrera, while mechanically nice and decent enough cosmetically, will probably never bring over $12,000 to $13,000 on resale once I have over 100,000 miles on it next driving season. I'll always get what I paid for it, but the maintenance and repairs will never allow it to be an investment. Quite the opposite from the low mileage cars we are talking about in this thread.

All these cars (993 and older) are old enough now that the person just looking for the 'bling bling' of driving a Porsche won't even touch these old things and will skip right to the 996 and 997.

It seems the pricing is dependant on the economy as well. When times are good, people have the spare cash for toys like this. Prices creap up then.

Good thread,

Jay
90 964, 84 3.2

peteweishaupt

vinoviva, you are living my dream. stop it! j/j. i bought my 88 last year with 82k and now have 86k on it. buying, selling, and driving 84-89 3.2's and not losing money is the ultimate hobby. enjoy.

vinoviva

Actually, it has been fairly easy--locate the car you determine to be in better condition/ more favorable options, possibly lower miles--buy it--and sell the car it replaced. I don't always make big profit $$, but I never lose money. I really enjoy driving these cars basically for free while I'm searching for it's replacement. I never put more than a few thousand miles on any one that I buy.
A key for me is having confidence in doing my own PPI. I'm also wary of cars with too low miles with years between the service intervals in the maintenance book. I always buy one owner cars with as much documentation as possible. Never have trouble selling the replaced car--the challenge is in finding the next one to buy.

andrew911

I think the market for clean 3.2s bottomed a while ago-
I bought a 1987 3.2 targa, 30,000 miles in 1995- $22,500 black/black bone stock (except I upgraded to Alpine and new speakers- tastefully done- i.e. wouldn't notice stereo & speaker as non-stock)
Sold it in 1999 with 40,000 miles for $26,500.

Probably about the price of a similar car today. My point is the market for the clean low mileage cars at least has been stable (or maybe on a slight uptick).

Like Vinoviva, I will always pay extra for a low mileage clean STOCK car, especially one that was not ever used as a daily driver- they tend to be babied cars with no dings, low wear and regular usage.

You can pay extra for a low mileage car and drive it as a second car & it will keep it's value. Or if you save money by buying a higher mileage car, it may need more work than the low mileage car (more $ in upkeep), and at the end of the day still be a high mileage car when you sell. Everyone is different in what they want, and that's what makes the market interesting. Others wouldn't want to pay extra for a garage queen because they will drive the car every day, or track the car, or modify. They are all great cars (although I only like 65-98 911s )

c9c

Thanks for your advice addict. I am expecting to pay no more than 24k for this car. It is supposed to be flawless, maintained, all paperwork, no ding or scratches, clean running car. I found a local Porsche shop that works on the 3.2's to do a PPI. They charge $160.00. Is this about the going rate. I don't mind paying for it to have a peace of mind. Are there any guarantees with these PPI's? How about CARfax? Thanks.

Jay H

Andrew, you did well.

I was really watching the market during those years. You bought right when those cars were just 8-10 year old "used" cars and then sold right before the bottom fell out of the 911 market in the early 2000's. In the very late '90's, you couldn't touch a nice G-50 car for less than $25-$26k... Many were over $30k.

vinoviva

c9c,
$160 is not too much to pay for a good PPI--they can/should take a couple of hours. Also--Peter Zimmermans info on the PPI is MUST READING for any prospective purchaser--buy his book--wealth of information. Good luck!

marcandkimmie

On the flip side...are the cars with gobs of miles...smiles...and fun behind them. They ain't worth a whole lot, but they sure have character. I drive a 249,000 mile modified and stripped out Carrera. I bought it for $9900 and put a lot of miles on it. It looks good, but definitely used. It runs very well, but definitely not new. I drive it every day and do something to improve it almost every weekend. It is fun in so many ways for me.

I purchased a low mile 964 in April of last year and then sold it a few months ago. It was gorgeous and looked almost new. Problem is I was always worried about dings and paint chips and sun exposure. I finally sold it at the price I bought it...but I never truly enjoyed it. Today I miss the good looks of the car, but my old 3.2 is so much more fun and I don't worry much about it.

Just a different perspective.

Marc