deadlyhunter

now that i've driven a 911, anyone know how a viper compares to it? i'm plaining on test driving one within the month. just wanted to hear what everyone says about vipers vs. porsches.

Jeff Curtis

Oh, you just like starting s___, don't you?

First with the Vettes, and now Vipers...is this a "V" thing or what?

I've driven SEVERAL Vipers from the RT-10 to the GTS and recently got to match wits with an ACR on the track.

ALL are pretty nice cars, LOTS or torque, but LONG and HEAVY. They are fairly easy pickins on the track, unless you've got one helluva driver and/or some crazy mods...and believe me when I tell you...they have TONS of mods for those rockets!

As far as Viper VS 911...I would answer that question using our friend - practicality. More bang for your buck with the 911, more cabin space, more options and you can even fit a decent sized suitcase in the front bonnet or on the shelf the seat backs form in the rear of the cabin when you go to pick up your girlfriend from the airport - I know that for a FACT!

Really, I am constantly astounded by German engineering, they know what they're doing...for the most part.

JackOlsen

A newer Viper with lots of dollars thrown at it will beat most 911's, but not 911 Turbos that have had a lot of dollars thrown at them. But in a Viper's stock configuration, they're generally easy to take down on a track.

But that may have to do with the type of guy who generally buys them. Like Vette owners, most of them (that I've come across, at least) are not really dedicated to learning how to get better at track driving so much as they're looking to fulfill some deaply-seated childhood fantasy of owning a muscle car.

Then again, there are some very fast Viper racers in California who deal out a lot of punishment to owners of other makes.

Drew_K

Jack said "But that may have to do with the type of guy who generally buys them."

This has been my only personal experience with Viper owners:

I'm on the autocross committee of the local PCA, and we hold an annual autocross challenge between different makes of cars. This year's challenge was BMW and Porsche vs Corvette and Viper; German vs. American essentially.

We geared the event towards the muscle cars to keep it fun. For example, the course had very few tight turns and was FAST. The gates were 20 to 30 feet wide for the most part, which is really unnecessary but we wanted to at least give the impression the course was "wide open." We even threw out the PAX index and said we would compete heads up with raw time, which gave the Vipers/Corvette owners a decided advantage, especially on a fast course.

The president of the local Viper club said he had more than 20 committments to show up. On the day of the autocross, only about 5 Viper drivers showed up. Out of those, only 2 actually entered after they learned that they actually had to WORK the course.

Plenty of Vette drivers showed up, and they had the best times. The BMW/Porsche team still won overall though. The whole event was a blast other than the disappointing showing by the Vipers.

Jeff Curtis

Drew_K, that's really too bad, because Vipers are just amazing looking cars to me...their performance is incredible, but all too often unusable in an Autocross scenario.

I really like the idea of being able to afford an ACR one day, but after talking to the owner of one a few weekends ago while spending a weekend at Charlotte Motor Speedway, I view the car as more of a collector's item, rather than a true car geared for the track.

That thing only had 10HP over a GTS...weird. I was hoping to hear like 40-60HP more??

Anyway, beautiful cars, practical - NO, beautiful - YES. Would I like to own one...over a prepped 911 - heck NO!

Roamer

Just my $2/100, every time we seem to get on this discussions I hear how a 1983 911SC (for example) is able to track down Vipers, Corvette Z06's, RX-7's, Supras, Lotuses, . . . and the list goes on. However, when these cars are driven in professional race series, newer, faster 911s (n.a.) have a tough time keeping up in all but the tightest courses.

I think that when we get into these discussions we put in the caveat that driver SKILL is not being factored in with those comments (except for in Drew's case), if the driver and car preparation are equal all the above cars will eat an early 911 and make a new 911 N.A. sweat.

Just thought a little reality needed to be introduced here . . .

ZAMIRZ

I've ridden in a few Vipers (2 RT/10s and 1 GTS ACR). All 3 of them were really uncomfortable and the build quality is really lacking. I could not get passed the humongous center console, it looks like a lot of the Dodge full-size truck parts made it into the car. The one thing the Viper does have is a GNARLY (haven't used that word since the '80s) growl and brute acceleration in EVERY GEAR, you put your foot down and it goes.

Now, we used to own a black on black C5 convertible which wasn't a bad car, good power, decent brakes, **** interior, decent ride and I think it looked alright (although it has the flattest and widest *** I've ever seen). The car would get looks left and right, but once again the build quality on it WAS HORRIBLE.....I don't know why, but the americans can't put a solid piece of machinery together.

Comparing both to my lowly '83 SC if I had to live with one car for a year I'd still pick the 911, it's got more character and better handling, once mastered it becomes a lot easier to drive fast....pretty much keep your right foot down and physics will do the rest, something I could NEVER do with the Corvette because the few times I did try I spun the car hard (although never actually hit anything which was good). The 911s also more comfortable and like Jeff said, it is nice to be able to fit a few duffle bags in the car with room to spare.

later,

amir

JackOlsen

Uh, "professional race series" and production cars don't have a whole lot in common. Didn't a Jaguar XKR win ALMS last year? When was the last time you saw a late-model (production) Jaguar at the track?

Roamer

Jack, I recognize that but the cars in the GT class are generally equally modified from stock.

emcon5

[quote]The cars in the GT class are generally equally modified from stock.<hr></blockquote>

Unfortunately ALMS GT class is for all practical purposes the US tour of the Porsche Cup. It was nice to see Ferrari mixing it up at Laguna Seca, the Risi GT Ferrari finished 2nd.

[quote]because Vipers are just amazing looking cars to me<hr></blockquote> Well, if you go for the Clown Shoe look

My favorite argument against the Viper is that it doesn't have a high performance engine. The way this was argued to me is that it doesn't even have 1 hp/cubic inch (they are getting closer though). Hell, small block chevys had more than that in the late 60's. The new Viper has 500hp for 505 Cubic inches, compared to 320hp in 220 ci for the non turbo 996 C4. If the 996 had the same displacement as the Viper, it would have over 730HP using the same hp/ci ratio. You can carry it over to the Turbo as well. If the Turbo had the same displacement as the viper, it would have 950hp. The Honda S2000 beats them all though, 240hp from 122 ci.

I don't believe a word of it, but it really irritates the Viper snobs.

Tom

GTSmith

" compared to 320hp in 220 ci for the non turbo 996 C4. If the 996 had the same displacement as the Viper, it would have over 730HP using the same hp/ci ratio. You can carry it over to the Turbo as well."

You seem to forget the more high strung a motor is the shorter the life of the motor. Having less hp per liter is not a bad thing, as in the viper motor, it does not have to work half as hard to get those numbers. And as far as saying "it would have over 730hp using the same hp/ci ratio" RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG

Steve Wilwerding

[quote]Originally posted by GTSmith:
<strong>
You seem to forget the more high strung a motor is the shorter the life of the motor.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think that's necessarily true. I'd be very surprised if the Honda S2000 engine (the highest hp/displacement ratio of any naturally aspirated production engine) didn't last a long time. In fact, I would be willing to bet the Honda engine would last longer than a Viper engine - the Japanese seem to have mastered the art of making reliable engines; Americans, in my opinion, have not.

Marv S

Ignorance, inaccuracies, and irrelevance are quite a combo.

[quote]<strong> The small block chevys had more than that in the late 60's.</strong><hr></blockquote> is just an inequitable comment as they were rated in a way different than today. Then it was gross and today it’s net. Put that 60's small block in a car today using the NET rating rules and it wouldn’t be close to 1 hp per ci.

Porsche, Honda, even Viper etc. pretty much use cc. Why the ci reference point?

Sophisticated engine or not the BONE STOCK Viper has hit 192 mph in top speed tests. The 1320 in the 11's. Lateral g’s over 1.05. I have driven the 2003 Viper and the brakes are fantastic. Tests have it at 60 to 0 in under 100'. It outbrakes everything short of the ENZO in the 70 to 0 tests and 100 to 0 tests, even outbrakes the Porsche GT-2 and that's quite a benchmark.

There are no Production Porsche or other cars under $100k that can even compete on a pure performance level. The subjectives are left to personal preference and only you should decide what's right for you but Viper performance is absolute.

[quote]Originally posted by emcon5:
<strong> My favorite argument against the Viper is that it doesn't have a high performance engine. The way this was argued to me is that it doesn't even have 1 hp/cubic inch (they are getting closer though). Hell, small block chevys had more than that in the late 60's.

The new Viper has 500hp for 505 Cubic inches, compared to 320hp in 220 ci for the non turbo 996 C4. If the 996 had the same displacement as the Viper, it would have over 730HP using the same hp/ci ratio. You can carry it over to the Turbo as well. If the Turbo had the same displacement as the viper, it would have 950hp. The Honda S2000 beats them all though, 240hp from 122 ci.
Tom</strong><hr></blockquote>

JPS

Well, seems that MarvS is one of those folks who bounced over from the Viper board...if not, interesting way to have a first post on this board.

In any case...the general consensus, which is what I think the orginal question was, is that Vipers are great cars that are VERY different than a 911.

Drive it, and come back and post your opinion.

Vreracing2

I've had a 89 944T, a 96 993 and a 96 993TT.

My opinion is that comparing the Viper to the Porsche is pretty much like apples and bannanas.

I've enjoyed all the cars.

The Porsche is obviously a little smoother and more refined. It handles better, has better brakes, and is easier to drive at speed.

In town, I don't think the Porsche is as much fun. It seems to like a little more rpm than the Viper does. For stoplight to stoplight drag racing, the Viper wins hands down.

On a track it is totally dependant on the driver. A good Viper driver would be pretty hard (probably couldn't be in Stock form) to beat on the track.