louis hong

I was able to put new tires in my new car(87 carrera) over the weekend. So I got to drive it hard. It is really nice. I keep comparing to the 97 I had. And this is my impression. 97 is a better looking car. 87 feels more solid and sure-footed. Maybe because of the new tires? Non-assisted steering feels more precise. 87 feels little bit lighter and I need to be in a higher RPM to get the same action out of the car as the 97. 97 engine sounded more tame and uniform sounding at idle. 87 engine is more loud and interesting sounding at idle. Overall the 87 carrera feels more true and enjoyable. Are my feelings biased because 87 is my current car? I don't know. What do you think?

2.7RACER

An '87 Carrera at 217HP, even the ROW at 231HP is at a disadvantage to the 325HP 997.
11.39/12.70 lbs per HP for the '87 Carrera's as compared to 9.46 lbs per HP for the 997.
Better suspension and brakes puts the 997 well ahead of the '87 Carrera in a head to head meeting.
Several reasons why we put 997's in class 12 and '87 Carrera's in class 9.
Hey, the Carrera is a ball to drive fast, the 997 is just faster and more sophisticated while doing so.
Guy's with $100K to spend should get something for their money.

Mike Murphy

Are you talking about a 1997 Carrera or a 997 Carrera? I have an 1988 Carrera currently, but test drove an 02C2 996. That 996 was really impressive, but it doesn't have the steering feel that the 996 had. But the 996 was much faster. So I guess it depends on what you want. I would rather have the 996 as my daily driver, but I would keep the 88 for weekends.

louis hong

I meant 1987 vs 1997, not 997. Also I am sure 1997 is faster but faster does not always mean more enjoyable. It just seems like 1987 is more enjoyable to drive.

Luus

I agree Louis, I think the 993 S cars are the best looking, '98 may have been the last of the aircooled but for me the '88 911 (87-89) is still the best.

Greg D.

993 (97) are generally floatier because the suspension wears out rather quickly and it was probably toast on your car. Mine felt like a luxobarge compared to my 83. It's still is the better car overall, if properly sprung... I've ridden in a 993 with new PSS9 suspension and the 87 carrera would feel like a donkey cart next to it ! More of a kick in the butt, better handling, but also more expensive repairs generally speaking are the 993's bane.

Happy you like your 87 - it's probably rationalizing, but it's stilla great car. I always liked 996s the least, until I got one, now I think they are fantastic. Go figure !

louis hong

Greg, why do you like 996 now? I test drove few of them with hopes that I will like it, but always felt disappointed afterwards. I still think of about 996s because my wife wants a sports car we can share. She can't drive stick and likes newer cars.

2.7RACER

Boy, I sure mis-read that one. I'm sitting here talking about a 997 vs '87, when the thread is about a '87 vs '97.
Excuse me. I'll turn up my hearing aid next post.
With 282HP and a 10.87 lbs to HP my money is on the 1997 model 993.

ruckmjr

My 88 is more fun to drive than my 996...but not on a daily basis. I think the 996 is an awesome looking car - better than the 88. And performance wise, the 996 wins hands down. If I could only have one car, I can't imagine any car better than the 996 (except maybe a 997). But once in a while there's simply no beating a bumpy, creaky, loud old car with virtually no creature comforts.

Greg D.

>Greg, why do you like 996 now? I test drove few of them with hopes that I will like it, but always felt disappointed afterwards.

Well, several reasons. First of all I've been around the block, 83 SC, 986, 993, 987 over the past 10 years...I was kinda forced back into a 4 seater car with airbags by an upcoming baby.... Mostly, I've started changing my tune about the 996 after I was given several rides in stock 996s by track instructors. Out of the box, that car is brutal. All you gotta do is maybe add Pagid pads and you have a bona fide race car under your butt.... The way it pulled out of hairpins compared to my old SC or my ex-boxster was ridiculous. The expenditure of making my old SC remotely competitive would have far exceeded the cost of buying a used 996, which will be faster no matter what.

Then I test drove a 3.6 model and when I shifted in 3rd, I got the same feeling as Harrisson Ford when he activated Hyperspace in the millenium falcon. All those objects by the side of the road turned into blurry lines... Third gear on the 996 is a space time continuum bender, with 2 extra kicks in the *** courtesy of the variocam + !!! The torque and HP of that car is awesome! And it continues to pull in 4th, 5th and even 6th. I simply LOVE that engine. As an aside, there is also something to be said for being at the wheel of a car that you know will be able to go faster than 99% of the stuff out there, just in case.... The looks (lack of hips really) were the biggest letdown for me, but that $%#%$% engine has corrupted me, I'm starting to find it pretty - with the Aerokit bits at least !

One last thing: There are tons of goodies for that car, and relatively cheap too ! From suspension to trim kits, it's a modder paradise ! Of course, I still own the ol' 83 SC so I have the benefit of going back and forth and not having to pick a side. But my days of going to the track with an old or underpowered car are over. You know that saying about it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, thnn a fast car slow ? Pah, it's even more fun to drive a fast car fast !!!

andrew911

Pah, it's even more fun to drive a fast car fast !!![/QUOTE]

Well, if you're after pure speed and don't care about the experience of driving a car, may I recommend a 505 hp ZO6- that thing will beat just about any street porshce outside of a CarreraGT or maybe GT2/3.

Personally, I'm more interested in decent performance (less than 6 sec 0-60 is fine) along with the EXPERIENCE You clearly have the best of both worlds with the SC and 996....I have it on a different level with my Beetle(48hp) and 964 (247 hp)

Mike Murphy

Well, if you're after pure speed and don't care about the experience of driving a car, may I recommend a 505 hp ZO6- that thing will beat just about any street porshce outside of a CarreraGT or maybe GT2/3.

Personally, I'm more interested in decent performance (less than 6 sec 0-60 is fine) along with the EXPERIENCE You clearly have the best of both worlds with the SC and 996....I have it on a different level with my Beetle(48hp) and 964 (247 hp) [/QUOTE]

What do you mean by EXPERIENCE?

Greg D.

Actually, if we are gonna nitpick about driving feel of older cars being a better experience, I'll raise you $50 and see your hand ;-) Having owned 2x 356s, a 65C and 57A, I'll say 911s, even early ones, are heavy, understeering pigs that don't communicate as "real" porsches should ;-)

You see where I'm going with this, right ? ;-) As a rule, each new porsche is better, and I find that people who are quick to condem new models as "less involving" probably have not spent much time - if any - driving the new cars in anger... A drive around the block won't cut it... I am guilty of that, I'll freely admit to it - it took some track time in the passenger seat of stock 996s for me to see the light. I tstill thnk they're not all that pretty, but you can buy a used one for $30K nowadays and it'll blow the socks off any old 911 that you poured $30K into. Add a GT3 kit and it'll look pretty nice too...

Actually I'm not after pure speed (and I don't like the feel of the "vette), I think the used 996 is a good balance of performance and "fun".. I would not mind a 73RS clone either, but it just does not make sense, dollar for dollar, for track duties.

The SC, or my 912 (even more) might be more "involving" at lower speeds, some might say more agricultural, but I find the modern porsches to be just as involving, except it happens at higher speeds... 4 wheels drifting my ex-987 out of turn 16 at sebring was a lot more fun than wondering if my SC was gonna accept to engage 2nd gear at the hairpin ! So yeah, if you're strictly using you porsche in town, you don't track it, you don't need the reliability to get to work, you're better off with just an old car, unless you hate breaking down... Me, I was getting tired of having to drive my mirrors in the Solo group at track days because as "decent" as I got, my car would not hold a candle to 996s-Turbos/GT3s on straights.

But I enjoy driving my 69 912 just as much... Or my $9000 SC.... I don't think there is a need to be exclusive in your enjoyment of porsche models. I'm just seing past the "fast car slow/slow car fast argument", like I said, driving a a slow car fast or a fast car fast can be just as much fun, and you get passed less ! It's not an ego thing, it's tiring to focus on your lines only to let the GT3 by all the time ;-)

Mike Murphy

Greg, I tried posting the age-old advice of "buy the newest Porsche you can afford" in the 993 forum and got torn to shreds on it. To the old school air-cooled fans, anything liquid cooled or anything post-993 is not a real Porsche. I reminded them that the 959, '98 GT1 & '02 Carrera GT were real Porsches...

It is a tough sell to many air-cooled fanatics that the 996 delivers a real P-car feel. I think it's because of the changes to liquid cooling, semi-dry sump, transmissions made in Japan, etc. Even Car & Driver said that the new 997 TT is "missing something."

Greg D.

>anything post-993 is not a real Porsche

At the risk of heresy, my 993 was the most dissapointing porsche I ever owned. It's the one I lusted after the most, the most beautiful one ever made this side of a Pre-A ;-)
But I found the car too soft, too quiet, too linear, the interior too "circa-1972", it was a car that I enjoyed admiring in my garage more than I enjoyed driving it. Coupled with the engine ODB2 issues, prices of rebuild and the lack of depreciation on them, I figured I'd try something else this time ! I got the 996 (used) semi-enthusiastically, and the damn thing has conquered me already ;-)

But so would a 997 - I just refuse to lose the first 2 years of depreciation - I'll wait for the lease returns in a few years ;-)