History of Fuchs...
11-29-2006, 03:15 PM
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History of Fuchs...
Does anyone know a good source of information about the history of Fuchs wheels?
I tried Googling and Wikipedia and neither turned up much...
Was Fuchs a separate company or were they made by Porsche?
Any info or shove in the right direction would be very appreciated...
Thanks!
Jeff
I tried Googling and Wikipedia and neither turned up much...
Was Fuchs a separate company or were they made by Porsche?
Any info or shove in the right direction would be very appreciated...
Thanks!
Jeff
11-29-2006, 04:24 PM
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11-29-2006, 05:08 PM
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11-29-2006, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ked
here's a start...
http://www.otto-fuchs.com/english/index.html
http://www.otto-fuchs.com/english/index.html
11-29-2006, 08:52 PM
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There is a great chapter in Tobias Aichele's book :Porsche 911, forever young about the Otto Fuchs Metallwerke, and Heinrich Klie, who was the designer of the fuchs wheel for Porsche.
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11-30-2006, 01:08 AM
#8
search for some of the past threads on Pelican -- there is a magazine article noted there that is not posted above (Pano?, Excl?)
also a discussion of a dispute on one point in some of the sources
and... the actual alloy used and its consistency
also a discussion of a dispute on one point in some of the sources
and... the actual alloy used and its consistency
11-30-2006, 02:54 AM
#9
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From an old post of mine on Peilcan:
Paraphrased from Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele:
Otto Fuchs Metallwerke had made forged wheels for armored military vehicles for Porsche during the war. So it made sense for Porsche to contact the same company when they came up with the idea of creating light alloy wheels for their 911 production car in the mid-60's. Fuchs representative Herr Kretsch offered Porsche something beyond their expectations, though: the possibility of mass-producing a high quality <u>forged</u> alloy wheel.
Nothing on this scale had ever been attempted in Germany.
Heinrich Klie of the Porsche model department (the early version of the styling studio) was given the task of styling the wheel. He became the 'father' of the Fuchs wheel. He is also responsible for a number of 911 design details, including the complete dashboard.
Klie and his team were given no precise instructions for the wheel, so he simply went to work with Plasticine modeling clay and came up with a design. Where styling assignments would typically involve weeks of trial and error, changes, and new revisions, this wasn't the case with the Fuchs wheel. The first model was shown to Ferry Porsche, who approved it "with a wave of a hand," according to Klie.
It then went to the suspension design department, where engineer Rudolf Hoffmann was responsible for the wheel's physical properties. Minor modifications were made.
From there, Fuchs chief engineer Karl-Heinz Ochel had to oversee a whole new process for manufacturing the wheel. 58 steps were required to make a single Fuchs wheel.
After being tested directly on numerous cars, some very minor changes were made, and the wheels were offered on the 1967 models. There was some internal controversy in the company over the design itself, but the marketing people prevailed in support of the wheel, and history proved them correct. The wheel became a runaway success and remained a design fixture on the 911 for 20 years.
(Image quality is only so-so because I don't have a scanner. I used a digital camera.)
Paraphrased from Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele:
Otto Fuchs Metallwerke had made forged wheels for armored military vehicles for Porsche during the war. So it made sense for Porsche to contact the same company when they came up with the idea of creating light alloy wheels for their 911 production car in the mid-60's. Fuchs representative Herr Kretsch offered Porsche something beyond their expectations, though: the possibility of mass-producing a high quality <u>forged</u> alloy wheel.
Nothing on this scale had ever been attempted in Germany.
Heinrich Klie of the Porsche model department (the early version of the styling studio) was given the task of styling the wheel. He became the 'father' of the Fuchs wheel. He is also responsible for a number of 911 design details, including the complete dashboard.
Klie and his team were given no precise instructions for the wheel, so he simply went to work with Plasticine modeling clay and came up with a design. Where styling assignments would typically involve weeks of trial and error, changes, and new revisions, this wasn't the case with the Fuchs wheel. The first model was shown to Ferry Porsche, who approved it "with a wave of a hand," according to Klie.
It then went to the suspension design department, where engineer Rudolf Hoffmann was responsible for the wheel's physical properties. Minor modifications were made.
From there, Fuchs chief engineer Karl-Heinz Ochel had to oversee a whole new process for manufacturing the wheel. 58 steps were required to make a single Fuchs wheel.
From Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele
"To be precise, the Fuchs wheel was formed by the following steps. A pressed piece of stock was forged to make a forging blank. Next, drop forging the blank produced the ventilation holes and deburred the flange. A further drop forging step resulted in a split flange, before the workpiece was widened by rolling. And here is the secret advantage of this complex manufacturing process: the Fuchs wheel stayed in production for so many years because it could be rolled to any width desired. The forming process resulted in a wheel with a completely finished inner side. The outer, visible side of the wheel was turned on special lathes, which resulted in the smallest possible wheel imbalance. A carefully developed surface finish -- polishing, anodizing, and painting -- permitted different design variations over the years and assured high corrosion resistance."
"To be precise, the Fuchs wheel was formed by the following steps. A pressed piece of stock was forged to make a forging blank. Next, drop forging the blank produced the ventilation holes and deburred the flange. A further drop forging step resulted in a split flange, before the workpiece was widened by rolling. And here is the secret advantage of this complex manufacturing process: the Fuchs wheel stayed in production for so many years because it could be rolled to any width desired. The forming process resulted in a wheel with a completely finished inner side. The outer, visible side of the wheel was turned on special lathes, which resulted in the smallest possible wheel imbalance. A carefully developed surface finish -- polishing, anodizing, and painting -- permitted different design variations over the years and assured high corrosion resistance."
After being tested directly on numerous cars, some very minor changes were made, and the wheels were offered on the 1967 models. There was some internal controversy in the company over the design itself, but the marketing people prevailed in support of the wheel, and history proved them correct. The wheel became a runaway success and remained a design fixture on the 911 for 20 years.
(Image quality is only so-so because I don't have a scanner. I used a digital camera.)
11-30-2006, 12:46 PM
#10
It is interesting that a design done before CAD and even the original "Finite element analysis " methods is still getting used and abused around the world.
Speeds and loadings us3ed today were probably not anticipated in the ealry 60's.
Speeds and loadings us3ed today were probably not anticipated in the ealry 60's.
11-30-2006, 02:56 PM
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there's no magic in CAD & FEI - they are simply quantitative techniques that enable more rapid, consistent design & manufacturing. Fuchs alloys may have been designed "old school", but I bet their perf would be confirmed by FEI. Real world data is the final test. Given that they were successfully employed on various RS & Turbo 911s in endurance racing & rallying, I believe that speed & loading factors have not changed that capability, at least for street usage of stock sizes. Of course, modern racing tires & the effect of decades of stress is a distinct matter.
12-02-2006, 09:36 AM
#13
Looking at the picture, one has to wonder how the rim gets so side when it starts out being what appears to be only maybe, 3 inches wide. Are these a 2 piecs wheel? I know they describe the process, but it just doesn't seem possible to get a 16 X 7 wheel out of maybe 3 inch stock.
01-04-2007, 11:26 AM
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Wow,
Never knew the complete history but very impressive. They are also NADCAP approved so I am assuming they do work for many US based defense primes. It looks like the wheels in the picture are the 9 or 11 inch wide x 15" which I used to have on my previous 911. I thought some machining was involved like most modern forged wheels but it looks like they do the entire process without machining.
Never knew the complete history but very impressive. They are also NADCAP approved so I am assuming they do work for many US based defense primes. It looks like the wheels in the picture are the 9 or 11 inch wide x 15" which I used to have on my previous 911. I thought some machining was involved like most modern forged wheels but it looks like they do the entire process without machining.