WizPorsche944

Hello I am 22 yrs old and have owned a 1987 944 since I was 16. On the side I want to buy a 911 project car to fix up and work on. I have $5,000 cash to play with and Need alot of advice on what yrs and moedls to look for. I know 5k isnt alot but its growing.

PC2

A $5,000 911 project car can get expensive very fast .... IMHO, you should wait until your budget reaches $10,000 and buy a nice 911SC that will not require too much work. Good luck!

Paul K

+1. Any 911 for $5k will be a real dog- and will probably end up costing you a lot more than the $10k SC mentioned in Peters post above.

I know it's hard to save and wait, but those who have say it's well worth it!

Cheers,

Paul.

JackOlsen

You really need at least 15K, in my opinion. That can be divided up for the initial purchase and the work it will need, but a 5K 911 is more likely to cost you 20K before it's worth half of that.

911s make very little sense as fixer-uppers. With a small handful of (lucky) exceptions, it's the most expensive way to go. The good deals are in buying cars that someone else has gotten 'upside down' in while fixing it up.

jdogporsche

I am trying to think of who it is here on Rennlist that recently bought a $4500 911. I know he had a few things that he needed to fix immediately, it would be interesting to hear from him on how much he has spent already. I got my 911 for $6500, but knew I would be putting some money into it right away (and I have). I believe (and I have been told by others) that I got a great deal. I was one of the exceptions though, my car is really in good shape with minor things needing attention. My car happened to have been sitting in a garage for 6 years and the owner did not know what was wrong with it but wanted his garage back.

I also once bought a 70 911T for $4500. That is about what it was worth though and I knew it. There is an old saying that is applicable to these cars too. You get what you pay for. There are some good deals out there, but you will be hard pressed to find them for 5 grand. Save up a little more...with every dollar you save, you will be able to look at an even nicer 911s. Also, take this time while saving up to test drive as many 911s as you can. Read and learn about these cars as much as you can as well. By the time you are ready to buy, you will truly know what you are looking at and what you will have in store for you in terms of potential future repairs. Also, please, please, please make sure you get a PPI. Good luck and feel free to ask all of us as many questions as you might have!

JackOlsen

The fixer upper idea only works if labor is your primary cost -- if doing it yourself knocks 70-80% off the tab.

Rebuilding a 911 engine is a great example of why this doesn't work for 911's. You can do a good rebuild for 8K in parts, or pay 12K for shop to do it for you. And either way, when you're done, you've got a motor that you can sell for 6K. And even if you do better than that (8K? 10K? -- is anyone except Motormeister* selling rebuilt motors at a profit?), you've got something that's not going to offer a lot more to a potential buyer than a low-mile Porsche-factory-built motor.

There are a lot of great reasons to rebuild a 911 motor, but cost savings isn't very high on the list.

Buying a sub-5K 911 is a great idea if you want to simply drive it until it stops. But even a free 911 that is going to need 10K in engine work or 3K in transaxle work or 3K in suspension work or 5K in cosmetic restoration is going to get really expensive really fast -- and the finished product will typically be worth half of what you put into it.

All of this is just my opinion. But I'm a guy who originally paid $3,500 for my 911, and would be thrilled to get half of what I've invested since then if I sold it. (That's a hypothetical 'if,' since it's not going up for sale.)


*If you're not familiar with Motormeister, do a search.

PC2

Put me on the list if you ever want to sell yours for half of what you've put in ....

Jay H

Here is an examples of how these cars get expensive in a hurry:

I bought a $12,000 '84 Carrera with 90k on the clock this spring. It was mechanically in good shape and drove nice (fresh tires, shocks, alt, full 15K tune up done). However, it needed paint work. Here's how it added up quickly in just 4 months of ownership:

$12k purchase
$1500 - minor paint work
$1500 - oil cooler line replacement, new oil thermostat, alignment, lower, balance tires, turn signal switch & additional misc work.
$2500 - new clutch and associated components (clutch cable, helper spring, etc), new starter.

The car is really solid mechanically, but I could easily spend another $3000 in paint work to get the car really mint cosmetically. I need a new headliner, window seals and the driver's seat could stand to be recovered. If I do the driver's seat, I'll have to do the passenger seat as well so stuff matches. That's probably $2000 to $3000 for parts and labor for that interior work and seal replacement. Thank God the interior is mint other than the above mentioned issues. Otherwise, that would be more money yet sprucing up the interior.

So, if I wanted my '84 mint, I'd be into it for well over $20,000 and I have not needed any major work. Yet. All for a car that might just be worth only $13,000 to $14,000 depending on the market and season of the year. My $12k Carrera is no longer a $12k Carrera. Imagine what you'd go through on a $5000 car? These cars are ALL $20,000 cars. Either pay up front or pay as you go. It'll be $20k in a hurry.

There are no $5,000 911's worth bringing home unless you can do a lot of DIY work. Parts are expensive for these things. Save your cash and buy a pretty decent car right off the bat. There are plenty of things to spend money on and practice working on even on good running cars. These are old, expensive high performance cars and they always need something.

Good luck,

Jay
My 911's

911S3.6

Another way to look at it:
What are your intentions for the car? If you plan to just make it an OEM stock 911 to drive and maintain as it was from the factory, as a fine street car, then definetely save your cash and buy a really nice unmolested stock 911 of the vintage you prefer.
If on the other hand, you are process oriented, by that I mean you enjoy the process of learning/doing the car, evolving it ...then, get in cheap and spend 10K/year for the next few years and build yourself an awesome car you will keep than no price offered would have you sell it.
I, like Jack, bought in low, and spent a lot to make a very special 911 to my specs, that is irreplaceable. ( Half of what is in it is an understatement Jack...LOL! )

Hope this helps,
///Nick

jdogporsche

This is starting to sound a bit like The Gold-Plated Porsche: How I Sank a Small Fortune into a Used Car, and Other Misadventures... You might want to read that WizPorsche944.

Volney

LOL. THe poor kid shouts out to a bunch of sports car junkies hoping not to get told what his father probably tells him all the time!! And all he gets back is the prudent response. Sorry WizPorsche but so many of us here have BTDT that we want to help those that have not jumped in and found themselves upside down before they knew what hit them!! If you had 10k and wanted to buy a car that needs some work, that MIGHT be workable, but at the 5k range you are pretty much signing up for 10-20k in work and the car may not be that nice when you are "done".. A 10K SC that has no rust issues might make sense if you are thinking long term. But you'd still need 20% more than that just to deal with the stuff that always comes up in the first year.

If you MUST go ahead and buy a car, then here are some guidelines. (I am by no means an expert, but if I stray from the "truth" too far, I'm sure someone will redirect me :-)

Early cars will appear cheapest (69-73) but will most likely have rust issues. Any car you buy should have NO rust or you will be sorry. There are plenty of other things to spend boatloads of money on. A rusty car can make you wish you'd never been born (so I've been told :-)

Mid year cars can also appear to be a good value (74-77). Rust proofing started somwhere in the middle of that range depending on which guru you listen to. OTOH, you may have heard the 2.7 liter motors in these cars were prone to early failure. If you have mid year car with no rust, and a documented CORRECT engine rebuild, you can get a pretty good car that you can enjoy for a long time.

SC's (78-83) are a great overall value since they rarely have rust issues if they have not been abused and they have the renowned durability of the 3.0 motor, many of whom have gone more than 250k miles without being taken apart. However, cheap SCs, even with no rust, can be expensive fast as others have noted above. Just freshening up the interior can set you back a few grand faster than John Daley can blow the entire winnings from a PGA event... Well maybe not quite that fast but it's in the conversation!

So tread with care, if you must, thought you'd likely be better off waiting until you have some more spending power.

Volney

EuroShark

I've got a 91k 1980 911 SC sunroof coupe for $5000 that needs headstuds. It could be driven around until i pulled the valve cover off and 3 headstuds fell out. Underside is rust free but it need paint, the drivers side seat has a rip and the dash has a crack. Can't find a better 911 project car than this one

3.2SLANTNOSE

Save your money and buy one that is in decent shape, like others have said, the parts and labor to fix one is very costly. If you do this and save your money till you can afford a GOOD car, you will be much happier in the end. Just my .02

IslandmanPA

Wiz, you may ultimately find a Pcar for 5K, but the consensus is right! By the time you start fixing everything, you'd be better off putting the money in the bank and keep saving!

Seller of fine used halon and halotron fire extinguishers!

Mike Murphy

You know, that 944 might just be good enough. Not to discourage you from a 911, but I know of a professional driver/instructor that runs with the 944S. And he probably whips a lot of 911 people's asses on the track with that 944S. Of course, he runs the 944S, and you might look into the cost of going to the S or Turbo. You might not be on a track, but that 944 is darn good street car.