Recovering Front Seats - 1985 Porsche 911
09-29-2006, 01:48 PM
#1
Recovering Front Seats - 1985 Porsche 911
Recovering Front Seats - 1985 Porsche 911
After 20 years, the seams and leather were starting to split on the front seats of my 911 Cab. The drive seat pad had already been rebuilt by upholstery shop 10 years prior. These seats were full leather with 8-way electric adjustment both driver and passenger.
I wanted to minimize cost and went with vinyl. If you want leather, consider getting used seats as option. Since this is only front seats, you should consider any differences this may create relative to the rear seats. I’m considering to recover those also but that’s another day in the future.
SOURCING: My seats were standard, non-sport, and dark brown in color. I didn’t want black which would have been more available and less expensive. GAHH and Upholstery World were the starting points but they wanted $600/$570 for vinyl and $1200/$1400 for leather. I may have been able to get xx% off these retail prices. Later I did come across some vinyl with leather insert (black only at Pelican) which would be a good compromise if priced accordingly.
I had three potential sources send vinyl samples for color match. Don’t short change the selection process. Get correct perforation and double stitched ribs, not double-single stitched.
I ordered a two seat set in dark brown German vinyl from an online source for $399+$20 shipping.
Hog rings, $2 and $10 pliers could be purchased at Sear/Orchards Hardware Supply in the chain link fence section. Of course upholstery supply shop is good if you can find them.
TIME: It took me 12 hours removal through re-installation, not counting time to repair/lube seat controls. This included full removal of all switches which may be avoided. You need to take your time doing the recover as this is lengthy and you must think about how to proceed while doing nip/tuck to get covers visually appealing. I broke it up into 4 sessions which allowed me to consider how to proceed on next sections. Also I did passenger side first to learn best practices.
Note: The photos below are not color accurate. They are all the same seats which match in color. Also these are freshly covered and will smooth somewhat as they get sun.
PROCEDURE: (also see http://www.inlandimports.com/installation.html for pre-1985)
1) REMOVE SEATS. Allen head bolts can be removed with tool from Porsche tool kit (battery hold-down Allen wrench). Disconnect electric power connector for seat adj./heater after removing bolts by leaning seat backwards
2) Clean/lubed seat mechanisms. Make notes on the wiring, label back rest motor plug as it looks same as heaters (if equipped). This is recommended but depends on what you will be recovering and how.
3) PAD: If just doing seat pads, don’t remove seat back. Skip to below.
4) BACK REST: If doing back, it ‘probably’ must be removed from seat pad frame. This is tricky since the seat frame is solid and the back pivots on the drive mechanism (more later). Also mine had a white alignment line which probably needs to be aligned on reassembly. See picture.
5) I did backrest first. Remove hog rings holding center pad first. Then it becomes apparent what hog rings need to be removed and how to proceed.
6) Let vinyl covers sit is some sun but don’t overdue it. See picture.
7) Recover back rest in reverse leaving center pad to last. Stay wires from old cover are used in new one. The cover on the center pad is tricky. Porsche used staples that spread outward. I added some copper wire hooks into the foam core, see picture. I had to trim some of the foam to achieve suitable fit. Hog rings don’t do well on 20 year old foam so I used silver duct tape to hold cover flaps to foam and as a stress relief for clipping hogs rings.
8) I waited at least a day before attaching the newly covered center pad to the wire frame using tie-wraps. The center pad cover attaches to the back cover at the top and is a stress point. Waiting gives the vinyl some time to stretch and you can make fitting adjustments on the pad cover.
9) Before reinstalling backrest. I used tie-warps to secure the back pad to the seat back in three places working from the top to bottom.
10) PAD: The seat pad has pointed, metal prongs that hold the cover underside to the frame. They are bent inward and must be pulled out. The vertical seat height must be sufficient to access these prongs. (If electric then use motor to raise it. Drill on adjust cable is ok but not good.) There is a wire that goes around the complete underside of the cover that is reused. Three stay wires must be moved to new cover.
11) I removed the electric seat switches to do seat pad since I was reconfiguring/replacing some of them. This took lots of time/patience since there is limited area to work the large wires through the seat. You ‘may’ be able to avoid. See procedure below.
12) The first step is to attach cover at the area of the deep seat groves. The tricky part is clipping the stay wires in the cover (in the deep grooves) to the underside frame. Working from the top with hog rings is a blind operation. I did not use hog rings, rather 3” copper wire made into a loop which I used to secure stay wires to frame, see pictures. I used pointed-nose vice grips to push the loops from the top and twisted to wires to the wireframe. See picture.
13) Check the fit of the cover at the lower lip near the pointed prongs. I had ½-¾” excess material which was OK but now would consider adding foam on the pad shoulders to take up this excess. I don’t know if adhesive is advisable or not for the extra foam.
14) REINSTALL BACKREST: See below.
15) RENSTALL SEAT: Connect power and ensure motors are going in the correct direction. If not reverse wires on that motor. Make sure the follower on the front to back worm gear are same distance from ends of the worm gears to minimize binding.
ALTERNATIVE
I would consider this procedure in lieu of removing switches: Remove cover plate and screws holding switch bracket, then remove old seat cover. Reinstall the switches without cover plate or mounting screws. After the new cover is completely in place, draw circles using black marker with the cover plate as template. Carefully pull vinyl up so cutting tool avoids switches and cut opening. Trim excess and pull switches through opening.
BACKREST REMOVAL:
This has a special section since it was not clear how to go about the process of removing the backrest. The backrest pivots on cams that are driven by the backrest motor located somewhere in the backrest (I never saw it.). I think it is in the headrest area and I suspect two cables go to worm gears to drive these cams. The cams are removable from the backrest after separating it from the pad, just pull out. The challenge here is the cams fit into rotational brackets which are held in place by a solid tube.. Inside the center of brackets are needle bearings which interface to the cam.
I’m not sure how all this works together but the bracket must be pryed to get the cam out. First remove c-clip in cam element and tap in with screw driver/hammer. You need a big screw driver or small pry bar. Once the cam is out don’t clean the bear made on needle bearings, if you do I don’t know how you get this back together.
Upon reassembly, holes need to be cut for the cams and the two bolt on each side of the seat. Insert cams so both sides align. Align the cams with the line on the brackets using the backrest motor. Align both brackets on each side. Then spread the brackets while putting in one side cam then the other. Careful that any tool you use to spread the brackets doesn’t slip and damage the new cover.
ELECRIC SEAT CONTROLS:
Generally the switches and adjust cables fail, not the motors. Small tabs on underside of switch will release it from bracket. Contact cleaner can be sprayed into four holes while holding switch face vertical. Do not take multi-way switch apart, like Humpdy-Dumpty, you can’t put all the pieces back together again.
HEATERS:
This vehicle came with seat heaters (back and pad) from the factory. I had disconnected them since they drained the battery once. I live in N. Cal. and didn’t need them. I did not move the heat elements to the new covers. The driver pad had been done once before by a shop and they sewed the heater element in when they rebuilt the pad. They rebuilt the pad by replacing the perforated center section and did not fully replace pad cover. If you have heater and want them then you need to figure this one out. Probably pull the thread form the old cover and get element sewn into new cover (?).
After 20 years, the seams and leather were starting to split on the front seats of my 911 Cab. The drive seat pad had already been rebuilt by upholstery shop 10 years prior. These seats were full leather with 8-way electric adjustment both driver and passenger.
I wanted to minimize cost and went with vinyl. If you want leather, consider getting used seats as option. Since this is only front seats, you should consider any differences this may create relative to the rear seats. I’m considering to recover those also but that’s another day in the future.
SOURCING: My seats were standard, non-sport, and dark brown in color. I didn’t want black which would have been more available and less expensive. GAHH and Upholstery World were the starting points but they wanted $600/$570 for vinyl and $1200/$1400 for leather. I may have been able to get xx% off these retail prices. Later I did come across some vinyl with leather insert (black only at Pelican) which would be a good compromise if priced accordingly.
I had three potential sources send vinyl samples for color match. Don’t short change the selection process. Get correct perforation and double stitched ribs, not double-single stitched.
I ordered a two seat set in dark brown German vinyl from an online source for $399+$20 shipping.
Hog rings, $2 and $10 pliers could be purchased at Sear/Orchards Hardware Supply in the chain link fence section. Of course upholstery supply shop is good if you can find them.
TIME: It took me 12 hours removal through re-installation, not counting time to repair/lube seat controls. This included full removal of all switches which may be avoided. You need to take your time doing the recover as this is lengthy and you must think about how to proceed while doing nip/tuck to get covers visually appealing. I broke it up into 4 sessions which allowed me to consider how to proceed on next sections. Also I did passenger side first to learn best practices.
Note: The photos below are not color accurate. They are all the same seats which match in color. Also these are freshly covered and will smooth somewhat as they get sun.
PROCEDURE: (also see http://www.inlandimports.com/installation.html for pre-1985)
1) REMOVE SEATS. Allen head bolts can be removed with tool from Porsche tool kit (battery hold-down Allen wrench). Disconnect electric power connector for seat adj./heater after removing bolts by leaning seat backwards
2) Clean/lubed seat mechanisms. Make notes on the wiring, label back rest motor plug as it looks same as heaters (if equipped). This is recommended but depends on what you will be recovering and how.
3) PAD: If just doing seat pads, don’t remove seat back. Skip to below.
4) BACK REST: If doing back, it ‘probably’ must be removed from seat pad frame. This is tricky since the seat frame is solid and the back pivots on the drive mechanism (more later). Also mine had a white alignment line which probably needs to be aligned on reassembly. See picture.
5) I did backrest first. Remove hog rings holding center pad first. Then it becomes apparent what hog rings need to be removed and how to proceed.
6) Let vinyl covers sit is some sun but don’t overdue it. See picture.
7) Recover back rest in reverse leaving center pad to last. Stay wires from old cover are used in new one. The cover on the center pad is tricky. Porsche used staples that spread outward. I added some copper wire hooks into the foam core, see picture. I had to trim some of the foam to achieve suitable fit. Hog rings don’t do well on 20 year old foam so I used silver duct tape to hold cover flaps to foam and as a stress relief for clipping hogs rings.
8) I waited at least a day before attaching the newly covered center pad to the wire frame using tie-wraps. The center pad cover attaches to the back cover at the top and is a stress point. Waiting gives the vinyl some time to stretch and you can make fitting adjustments on the pad cover.
9) Before reinstalling backrest. I used tie-warps to secure the back pad to the seat back in three places working from the top to bottom.
10) PAD: The seat pad has pointed, metal prongs that hold the cover underside to the frame. They are bent inward and must be pulled out. The vertical seat height must be sufficient to access these prongs. (If electric then use motor to raise it. Drill on adjust cable is ok but not good.) There is a wire that goes around the complete underside of the cover that is reused. Three stay wires must be moved to new cover.
11) I removed the electric seat switches to do seat pad since I was reconfiguring/replacing some of them. This took lots of time/patience since there is limited area to work the large wires through the seat. You ‘may’ be able to avoid. See procedure below.
12) The first step is to attach cover at the area of the deep seat groves. The tricky part is clipping the stay wires in the cover (in the deep grooves) to the underside frame. Working from the top with hog rings is a blind operation. I did not use hog rings, rather 3” copper wire made into a loop which I used to secure stay wires to frame, see pictures. I used pointed-nose vice grips to push the loops from the top and twisted to wires to the wireframe. See picture.
13) Check the fit of the cover at the lower lip near the pointed prongs. I had ½-¾” excess material which was OK but now would consider adding foam on the pad shoulders to take up this excess. I don’t know if adhesive is advisable or not for the extra foam.
14) REINSTALL BACKREST: See below.
15) RENSTALL SEAT: Connect power and ensure motors are going in the correct direction. If not reverse wires on that motor. Make sure the follower on the front to back worm gear are same distance from ends of the worm gears to minimize binding.
ALTERNATIVE
I would consider this procedure in lieu of removing switches: Remove cover plate and screws holding switch bracket, then remove old seat cover. Reinstall the switches without cover plate or mounting screws. After the new cover is completely in place, draw circles using black marker with the cover plate as template. Carefully pull vinyl up so cutting tool avoids switches and cut opening. Trim excess and pull switches through opening.
BACKREST REMOVAL:
This has a special section since it was not clear how to go about the process of removing the backrest. The backrest pivots on cams that are driven by the backrest motor located somewhere in the backrest (I never saw it.). I think it is in the headrest area and I suspect two cables go to worm gears to drive these cams. The cams are removable from the backrest after separating it from the pad, just pull out. The challenge here is the cams fit into rotational brackets which are held in place by a solid tube.. Inside the center of brackets are needle bearings which interface to the cam.
I’m not sure how all this works together but the bracket must be pryed to get the cam out. First remove c-clip in cam element and tap in with screw driver/hammer. You need a big screw driver or small pry bar. Once the cam is out don’t clean the bear made on needle bearings, if you do I don’t know how you get this back together.
Upon reassembly, holes need to be cut for the cams and the two bolt on each side of the seat. Insert cams so both sides align. Align the cams with the line on the brackets using the backrest motor. Align both brackets on each side. Then spread the brackets while putting in one side cam then the other. Careful that any tool you use to spread the brackets doesn’t slip and damage the new cover.
ELECRIC SEAT CONTROLS:
Generally the switches and adjust cables fail, not the motors. Small tabs on underside of switch will release it from bracket. Contact cleaner can be sprayed into four holes while holding switch face vertical. Do not take multi-way switch apart, like Humpdy-Dumpty, you can’t put all the pieces back together again.
HEATERS:
This vehicle came with seat heaters (back and pad) from the factory. I had disconnected them since they drained the battery once. I live in N. Cal. and didn’t need them. I did not move the heat elements to the new covers. The driver pad had been done once before by a shop and they sewed the heater element in when they rebuilt the pad. They rebuilt the pad by replacing the perforated center section and did not fully replace pad cover. If you have heater and want them then you need to figure this one out. Probably pull the thread form the old cover and get element sewn into new cover (?).
09-29-2006, 05:51 PM
#3
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Been looking into this myself this year. Bought a pair of burgundy fronts (used), turned out they weren't in bad shape, but I didn't see the big difference to swap out mine. They're still sitting in the garage.
I have the vinyl, and given the drop-top, was advised wisely to stay with the vinyl. Makes sense, I drive her everywhere.
I had a local upholstery place quote me $50 / seat installation if I provided the new skins. My seats are non-power in the '84.
Mind forwarding the source for the $400 skins? Thanks, & nice info / sharing your experience with this!
Great info,
I have the vinyl, and given the drop-top, was advised wisely to stay with the vinyl. Makes sense, I drive her everywhere.
I had a local upholstery place quote me $50 / seat installation if I provided the new skins. My seats are non-power in the '84.
Mind forwarding the source for the $400 skins? Thanks, & nice info / sharing your experience with this!
Great info,
02-07-2007, 12:42 PM
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Just had mine done
I sourced the cork vinyl for the top bolsters at Gahh and found a plaid cloth locally for the inserts. Seats turned out great and look original with the coresponding cork vinyl installed was $375.00.
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04-18-2007, 06:31 PM
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Okay, I'm new-ish to the forum (I've been on the rennlist email forums for ages, and am a rennlist member) and as such I'm not able to send PMs yet.
Anyway, I'm looking for this mythical source for vinyl seat-covers at $399/pair.
Thanks!
Damion
Anyway, I'm looking for this mythical source for vinyl seat-covers at $399/pair.
Thanks!
Damion
04-23-2007, 05:57 PM
#10
ebay cypok out of NYC .... also http://www.inlandimports.com/homepage/home.php
I suspect (but can't confirm) inland sources from the guy in nyc
I suspect (but can't confirm) inland sources from the guy in nyc
