gt3racerich

I have been looking for a 73 911 for a while. I have never riden in one, let alone driven one so I don't know why I have the hots for one so bad. What is it about these cars anyway?(I guess that is a whole other thread) I thought that I wanted it with a 3.6 but lately I have been reading threads and many people prefer a 2.7. When ever I see a car for sale, I factor in the cost of changing the engine, but if a car has the engine I want, even if it is more expensive, it becomes cheaper.(providing it is done right) Again, since I have no knowledge of the older cars I have nothing to base my preferace on. I have been reading the recent thread about which tub to use for a project like this so I thought I would ask about the engine. Which engine do you prefer and why. Anyone whe replies will have more knowledge then I, and I appreciate all coments. There are presently 2 cars that I am interested in. Both have 2.7 engines and are to expensive to change the engine. If I were to be happy with the engine that is in the car it makes them both more reasonable.
Thanks in advance, Rich

Doug&Julie

Well the two motors are as different as the cars from which they "initially" came. The 2.7 (not just any 2.7, but a true RS MFI 2.7 with 210hp) is a free reving motor with good old fashion feel and sound. The 3.6 is more of a grunt motor; larger, more powerful, but also heavier and, some would say, not as "lively" because it's an EFI motor. Which motor you want in your RS "recreation" depends on whether you want an RS "feel" or just an RS look with a killer motor.

Now, if you're looking at CIS 2.7 motors from a '74-'77 car, you'll get an even different feel...and none of those have quite the HP numbers that either a true RS 2.7 or 3.6 have.

Hope that helps...

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Rich:

LOL,..You've asked a great question that believe me, many people have agonized over when deciding to build a "hot-rod" 911.

A Motronic 3.6 has a totally different feel and personality from an RS-spec 2.7 and the choice lies with what you want and how you drive.

A 3.6 (or 3.8) has brute torque that can overwhelm the rear tires at will. These are not high-RPM engines and do their best between idle and 6000 RPM. Motronic engines have a single throttle assembly that cannot match the instant throttle response of a carbureted or MFI'ed 2.7 or 2.8 that has one throttle-per-cylinder. The "S"-cammed 2.7's or 2.8's pull hard from 4000 to 7300 with a scream that many people find entertaining,.....

Both configurations are a LOT of fun to drive and I'd suggest that you find some cars in your local area that you can get a ride in.

Personally speaking, I've found that a properly built, 2.8 twin-plug S-cammed engine with close-ratio gears is VERY quick and a good match for a larger engine'ed car.

JackOlsen

A lot of your choice is going to depend on what you want to do with the car. If you're just looking for a fun weekend driver, then the economical choice is going to be to find a car you like and leave it at that. Even a mild 2.7 is going to be a fun car to drive. You won't win many stoplight races in it, but that's not what 911's are built for. Now, by '2.7,' make sure you're talking about an MFI motor, not CIS. The 1974-77 motors have a lot of the negatives of a small-displacement engine without the pre-1974 positives. U.S. emissions laws are the problem.

But if you're looking for character, a 2.7 MFI motor that's been 'built' to over 200 hp is going to be a lot of fun. Plus, you'll get all the sounds and smells of the motors these cars originally came with.

That said, there's no substutute for displacement. I have a bone-stock 964 3.6 motor in my 72 tub, and I've tracked a wide assortment of early cars, including Andial-built 2.8's and other varieties of early race motors. I'm going to have to beg to differ with Steve, slightly. The high-strung early motors are a ball to drive, and it's amazing what kind of power they can put out if the owner has deep enough pockets -- but I haven't found one that could keep up with my plain vanilla 3.6 yet.

And then there's the pocketbook factor. Some of these motors I've driven have cost their owners easily five times what I paid for mine (some closer to ten times). And when you push a 2.5 to 2.8 into the 250+ hp range, it becomes a motor with a very short lifespan if you're tracking it. The nice thing about my 3.6 is that I'm closing in on 350 track hours with it and all I've done is add Mobile One. Some race motors would require more than five rebuilds over the course of a lifespan like that.

I agree with Steve that they're both fun options, each with distinct advantages that the other can't match. I love the economy, torque and reliability of my 1993 motor. But it doesn't evoke Porsche's heritage with the same siren song as a low-displacement MFI motor screaming at 8000 rpm. But then, depending on how you want to use your motor, you've also got to decide how much character and heritage you can afford. For a street-only or show car, the 2.5-2.8 engine is the easy answer. For a longhood workhorse, though, the same motor is going to cost you some serious dough over time.

SandyI

My advice is to find yourself a well-maintained stock '72 or '73 911E.
It's basically perfect as is.

Gary R.

I'm with Jack, money to burn build an RS or RSR replica with a true 8000+ RPM screamer, if you want a replica to drive and not pay for your shop's new service truck drop in a 3.6 and drive...

r911

be sure to distinguish a stock motor from the modified motors that are discussed above.

also, note that some motors scream b/c they HAVE to - doesn't mean the scream is not entertaining...

IS it down to a choice between 2 specific cars? If so, describe them and people can help you make a decision.

in the spirit of full disclosure... I split the difference - I have a 3.2L motor that has been modified with differnt cams, pistons, carbs, & SSIs (a type of header with heater boxes on it). It revs very well, and still has good torque for street driving.

As a general rule, the younger you are, the smaller the engine displacement you will want/put up with!

VinnyC

My 73 RS Clone has a late 80's 3.2 motor and is reliable, fast and VERY fun to drive.

Bill Verburg

While nice on a track an 8000rpm screamer won't be much fun on the L.I.E.

For a street driven fun car displacement and gearing are everything.

I had a 2.4 MFI S, the C3 that replaced it was better, the 3.6 that replaced the 3.0 was better yet, the 3.8RS that replaced the 3.6 was too much.

MarkSchu

Along those lines, how much horsepower can you get out of 2.7 or 2.8 and still have it streetable?

RoninLB

imo streetable means mid range torque and quick acceleration.

Some play a game of waiting in a 60mph zone in 4th gear till speed racer comes up behind to follow so he gets radar hit 1/8-1/4mi in front of you while the V-1 notified you he got hit.

that said.. you don't want to crawl up behind him maybe having to do 100mph for awhile to catch your bait. You want to pull out and zoom right up into your follow the leader mode. That's one game I have figured out. Stock 3.2 guys say I pull much quicker than them.

Different strokes for different folks.

andrew911

What a great quote! True with other car's as well...look at all the 1.8 liter hondas/acuras driven by 17 year olds with a bee-hive muffler!

Started with a 3.0 911 at 17, then 3.2 at 23, then 3.6 when I was 30...at this rate I'll be at a 7.2 liter by 60

gt3racerich

Wow. Thanks very much to all that replied.

Doug, I don't have the knowledge to know what the RS feel is. I think after reading everyones replies that what I want is an RS look with a killer motor.

Steve, I like brute torque.

Jack, all of the reasons you give for the 3.6 are the reasons that is what I wanted. Coming from a Musle Car and Drag Racing backround my motto has always been "there's no substutute for displacement". In the past I have always watched friends spend a ton of money on a radical, tempermental motor. I would go out and buy a crate motor, blow them away, use it for 5 years, then sell it for more than I paid for it.

Gary, I completly agree.

Randy, the 2 cars I am interested in are actually pretty similar. They both have 2.7's and are to expesive if I factor in changing the engine. If I were to sell a proper 2.7, about how much would it be worth? This is one of them: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=299684 The other is $6000 cheaper, and I think I actually like it better, although I have not seen either in person.

Vinny, I was in the process of making arangements to look at the car you bought. Just curious, did you buy it sight unseen? I lost a car recently becouse I could not fly in to see it. I think it was the nicest I have seen but I could not do it without seeing it.

Rich.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Rich:

Great feedback, thanks.

IMHO, you'd be more than pleased with an early car containing a 3.8 RS-spec Varioram motor.

Properly done, these make 320-327 HP and 295 lbs-ft. Coupled to a properly built, late model 915 transmission with close-ratio gears, this combo is just the ticket for someone with your background.

If you were closer, I'd arrange a demonstration for you,....

Doug&Julie

When we move to Portland, can we have a demonstration?