What are the advantages / disadvantages of a euro SC?

 

The first that comes to mind is finding the maintenance record on the car. Secondarily, was the car legally imported into the USA? With an SC, it may be lacking some of the safety features that the USA DOT mandates. For several years, there was an active grey market in 911s. With a favorable exchange rate, one would be able to get a 911 for a steal perhaps and import it into the USA, bypassing the Porsche USA importation process. Technically, they were grey market and problematic,--as the cars were generally configurated for the USA market. Much of the dissimilarity on these cars (from market to market) faded away by around the late 1980s (but there you're into the 3.2 Carreras). Does it have safety glass in it? Is the bumper made of steel, with shock absorbers in there to lessen the damage from a fender bender? Some Porsches had fiberglass bumpers in them,--the Germany market, for example.

There are a myriad of issues surrounding this. It is generally ignored on a historically significant car,--like a 1973 Carrera 2.8 RS or something. To do this for a very ordinary 911SC is way too much risk for very little gain.

 

In a nutshell, the Euro SCs are more powerful due to a higher compression ratio and a freer-flowing exhaust. They also have a lower ride height from the factory and often do not have as many luxury options as a US-spec car. They have 204 hp vs 180 for the US cars. That said, Euro cars often have more questionable histories, since they are often imported as "grey-market" cars and could have had shady, half-*** work done to get the car to comply w/ US regulations. Also, it is hard to trace a Euro car's history back all the way since the VIN #s have "ZZZ" in them and aren't accepted by Carfax, et al. In addition, it seems that many Euro cars were "driven hard and put away wet." All of this is not to say that it is impossible to find a good Euro car; I know of several. Peter Zimmerman's and Bruce Anderson's books have many more specific insights on Euro cars and I'd recommend checking them out.

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Chris Andropoulos
Schneider Autohaus
Santa Barbara, CA

 

jack: Both above posts make good points. I'd like to add one word - exposure. Because '85 was probably the hottest year for the gray market (exchange rates made it possible to buy a new Carrera in Germany for many thousands of dollars less than in the U.S.), Euro SCs were already being used regularly for a few years, including during harsh winters. That exposure to the elements took its toll on many of the gray market SCs that found their way here; add to that poorly done Federalization parts and procedures, suddenly the few extra ponies you get with a Euro car don't seem to be as important. If you need A/C your chance of finding a Euro SC with it is slim. Depending on the EPA/DOT conversion, and the state where you live, you run the risk of registration and annual/bi-annual inspection difficulties. Many Euro SCs were built with cloth-covered seats, while virtually all USA models had either vinyl or leather. As Chris stated, many Euro SCs were not equipped with sunroofs, fog/driving lights, even power windows, while finding a comparable USA model without those options would be a difficult task.
Pete

 

Thanks for the responses. Its a lot of good info. Without knowing anything about it I was initially hesitant on euro cars. But so many of the ads for euro sc's seems to brag that is euro, so I started wondering.

 

Jack, sellers present any unique aspect of their product as a benefit & brag on it, deserved or not - don't accept any of it on faith. be educated, well-mannered, straight-forward, verify everything & get an expert PPI (my version of "trust but verify" - leave out the trust). Pete is quite right (& buy his book if you are seriously considering a 911) - back in the day (when I was in the biz) I saw many grey-market cars new to the US but very world-weary (not to mention botched conversions). hopefully, the bad ones are all gone by now (but don't count on it...). good luck!

 

I'll add to ked's post about some bad, some good.

In 1997, my brother bought a 1983 Euro SC. It passed emissions the first time. It had almost no options, so a lot of things were hacked in such as a poor A/C system, stereo system that ruined the door panels and rear deck, etc. etc.

Almost a year ago, my brother picked up another 1983 Euro SC. No records and there was almost no way to determine how many miles were on the car since it had a US spec speedo and who knows when that was added in and if they converted the km to miles correct (or if at all).

This too passed emissions on the first try, but we really felt it was down on power (we had a good reference on what a Euro SC should feel like!) and got horrendous gas mileage (this one was getting 19 mpg, his other SC was getting 26-27 mpg under my conservative foot). Our mechanic went over the car this summer (we skipped a PPI since my brother really wanted another Euro due to the increase in power in these cars) and found that some company in Colorado had fashioned a Bosch control box of some sort along with a 7th fuel injector stuffed into a machined aluminum box to control the fuel injection so it would pass emissions. This whole set up looked pretty old...so we assume it was done in the '80's.

Anyway, $2000 later, the car runs extremely well and has more power than my '84 Carrera. So, like ked says, there still can be some cars out there that have goofy US conversion stuff even 22 years later. It can cost some bucks to get all theses systems back to stock and running correctly.

Euro cars are a hoot with the increased compression and typically less options (easier to find a non sunroof car for example), but you really have to do your homework on them. I'd recommend one if you can find a good one and can get it to pass emissions and everything is in order (or you can afford to make all in order).

Good Luck,

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

 

I love my (for sale) Euro SC. 1978. Lots of paperwork came with the car, along with a known US histroty. Depending on the overall vehicle, I'm not sure how helpful a papertrail can be. Heck, they are 23-28 year old cars. Admittedly, if you live in a tough "emmissions" state you may care, but otherwise, get a PPI and go for it!

 

I bought a 1986 euro cab with low mileage back in 2001. When I bought the car it came with the original importation document showing it arrived in the USA in november of 1985. I live in California so I had some issues to deal with since the car came from Texas. The California Air Resources Board also had some requirements to pass as well. The DOT work was done correctly and was supplied with the documentation showing it passed. Anybody wanting to buy a euro car can contact DOT directly with the vin and they will supply whatever importation information. In my case I wanted the euro for the extra power but would only buy a car that was brought in immediately after it's manufacture. You do not want one that spent a few years in europe and then brought in. I got a very nice car and never regretted the decision. Curt

 

I brought in a modified euro SC. I purchased it Thanksgiving day 1984 and took delivery of it after DOT requirements in February of 85.

I also helped bring in 70 other euro 911's during the grey market years.

Many of the cars were in great shape. The exchange rate was so good that although you were paying a premium over there the savings were undeniable. My 79 SC which was converted to a 74 RS clone cost me a whopping $7k back in 1984. I could have sold the car here for over $40k.

In the beginning before word caught on the cars being brought over were in great shape. After a while and it became a popular way of making money, many locals bought beaten up 911's and had them repainted and replaced the speedometers to show less mileage. Most of these cars were pretty obvious with overspray on everything.

The DOT requirements were minimal compared to current requirements. There was not that much different between US and ROW cars as far as DOT was concerned. IIRC you needed to reinforce the doors with a steal bar. Replace the headlamps with sealed beam units (UGHH) add additional lights in both front ane rear assemblies. The reflectors where there but no bulbs installed. The biggie was installing the impact shocks on the bumpers. The euro's had the same aluminum bumpers but had solid mounts vs the compression mounts used in the US.

Other than this there was no real difference. If you are lucky enough to find a good example the car should be as good if not better than a US model as stated. The CIS head on the euro models flowed more fuel than the US model which makes it better for modifying. Most a/c units were add ons anyhow at that time so they never worked well factory or not. We used to call them engine heaters.

I would treat the car the same as any higher mileage 25 + year old car and have it thoroughly inspected by an expert before buying.

 

I have an 85 euro carrera. I had the advantage of knowing the previous owner who had the car since new (it was brought into the U.S. with only a few km's on it.) I absolutely love it. Its seat of the pants quicker than a comparable U.S. spec car, has euro bilstein/lowered suspension, all amenities, H4 headlights with city lights, side repeaters, and a rear foglight, etc. I guess I consider myself lucky. It just clipped 50k miles and is dry as a bone. Plan on keeping it forever


Don't let anyone scare you off from a euro car. There are plenty on this board that have them and have no regrets. But as always...do your homework and you can't go wrong.

 

svb: One of the points that I tried to make was that your chance of finding a great EURO SC was slim, especially one equipped with the niceties that we have come to expect. What you say is certainly true, cars like yours that were brought in "new," and received professional certification (my shop Federalized two '85 Carreras in '85), can be very fine cars indeed. We did both cars for registration/certification in CA, and both cars passed all tests the first try. I've lost contact with each car, but in the late 90s they were both as new, one with about 40K miles, the other with about 100K miles. Incidentally, this thread concerns SCs, but it somehow has moved into Carrera territory. Those are two different situations, and one must be careful to keep them separated. In any case, when I post regarding gray market cars it's only intended as a warning that the chance of ending up owning a really bad/costly car is always there - in this case that risk is simply greater with an SC. And please don't forget, there are exceptions to every rule.
Pete

 

good point.. I forgot we were talking about SCs. I wonder if my carrera is one of "yours."

 

Although I understand what you are saying, IMO buying any SC at this point euro or US is a crap shoot. By now, the crappy cars that were brought over have either met their demise or have been thoroughly restored. So many SC's are very high mileage cars and need TLC no matter where they started life. As with any older car a proper PPI will tell you if the car is good are garbage.

At such a late stage in the game I see no need to distinguish between a euro or a US car. I would focus on a good or a bad SC.

I brought this car over in 1984 and of the other cars I helped to bring over most of them were in comparable shape. That is not the case for all cars but many were in tip top shape. I still wish I had this car it was fabulous.

 

svb: Both the cars that I did were red, but they were both Targas. It would certainly be cool to get re-aquainted with one or both of them!

Pete