Joel Lester

I am considering putting new shocks on my '86 3.2 coupe. Everything is original except new turbo tie rods and bump steer kit and slight lowering. Car has 135K miles on it.

I'm getting a little confused about how far to take this project. On the Pelican web site they recommend the Bilstens (I have Borge on now) and I'm cool with that. But, to replace the whole strut is mighty expensive when compared to just replacing the shocks. Is that worth it? Also, I can see putting new shock bushings in at the same time but what about all these other suspension bushings they sell? Are they really necessary? At one point they point out that it could be "dangerous" to drive if you don't replace them. I like working on my car but I feel I would be getting in over my head if I have to take the whole suspension apart. I just don't have the tools for it. Any advice or thoughts?

I'm also thinking about putting in one of those shock tower braces. Are they worth it?

I plan to drive this car as a daily driver with the occasional track day a couple times a year.

Thanks!

Joel

theiceman

Joel I think afew of us on this forum can definitely help you out . Between JAmes and myself we just about did it all. I did some of it but James went the full 9 yards.

Bilstein sellsan insert you can put inside your old shock housing. A pretty simple procedure overall , takes about a day if you have never done it. In a nutshell you put your car on jack stands. undo the nut in the fender, push the insert down through the fender, take the dusst cover off , remove the strut cap nut, take your oil soaked hydraulic shock out, suck the excess oil out of the housing , drop in your Bilstein, button it up .

I also replaced my sway bar rubber bushings , both the outers and the inners at the same time. Pretty simple. I also installed the strut tower brace, really more of a preventative measure as my car is 28 years old and I did it to stop the towers from sagging.
James did all the bushings on the front suspension but it was more than what I wanted to do. I am happy with my results.

James , sounds like you need to get with this guy over a few pops ..he's a local..

e911

Hi Joel,

Not sure if it makes since to replace the entire strut. I know Bilstein makes inserts for Boge. I have bilsteins so can't opinion on the Boge. For a street car I would tend to go with the less $$ and go slow with the "improvements" IMO these are overrated for street use. Its a very slippery sloop.

It really depends on the primary use of the car - if its street don't go there. Unless you like that stuff.
Strut braces look good, but i ? if you reaaly would feel any difference on street use. Well enought to justify the $. Bushing - IMO same - stay with stock or poly... no need to go with the costly $$ stuff - hey it does look good - but heck its street car!!!

The stiffer a car is - better for track and less comfortable on the street. If it true is a street car - replace when you need and stay away from the expensive trick/race stuff. That's my philosophy.

good luck

JCP911S

I agree. For normal street use, sticking with stock suspension is a good bet... if your shocks and or bushings are worn, replacing htem is definately required. However if they are fine, let them be... unfortunately on a 20 yer old car with 137K, they are probably on the downside of the lifecycle.

Personally, I am not a fan of poly bushings.... I think they are noisy and bind the suspension... I'd stick with stock if they are available.

If you want to increase the handling of the car and are willing ot make some mild sacrifices in ride quality, going to larger torsion bars is the best change. There are multiple combinations depending on the ride/handling mix you want... but for street use, I'd stay with a more modest setup, as you do not want to car too stiff fo 90% of your driving. You'll want ot do this in conjunction with new shocks as the shock valving should match the new bars... most good performance specialists can give you a tuned package.... that is what you want.

If budget permits, going with monoballs and poly-bronze bearing like the Elephant Racing are the other option... they will tighten up the car, but will cause more harshness in the ride... probably not go here unless you plan to do alot of track use.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Joel:

IMHO, the very first thing you need to do is decide on what you want the car to do that it doesn't do right now. In short, assess how you drive the car and how you will use it. Good, sound decisions now will result in a car that not only exceeds your expectations, but will save you money.

As the other fellas described, all you need to do is install Bilstein inserts (HD or sport) into your existing Boge struts and add Bilstein rear shocks (HD or sport) for an immediate improvement. You can add the Turbo tie-rod kit for a nice upgrade in steering feel, too.

Bushings are usually replaced after determining what condition yours are in; in most cases, the rubber A-arm and rear spring plate bushings have sagged over time and ride quality is compromised. Its not a safety issue as much as its a ride & handling concern. You cannot replace factory rubber bushings without buying all new A-arms and spring plates (expensive!!!) so aftermarket solutions are the most practical. We usually use the ER poly-bronze greasable ones for the improvement in ride and handling. Its a big difference,.... On a 20 yr old car, I'd venture that your bushings are not in great shape.

Shock towers do NOT sag, but strut braces do make modest improvements in steering response since they help keep the tire contact patches flatter on the ground in hard corners.

Other modifications such as larger torsion bars (springs) and swaybars are intended for people who drive hard on the street as well as participate in Driver Ed. events. With the right choices, ride quality is not ruined and handling is FAR better.

Bottom line: A proper suite of carefully chosen upgrades makes these cars not only a lot more fun to drive, but they ride better, too.

r911

ER = Elephant Racing, not the erp racing suspension made by Carey Eisenlohr...

It's best to do that now (savings of labor & cost of alignment) but it is somewhat involved. I would think about replacing the ball joints at the same time.

Or just do the inserts and figure you'll maybe do the rest years later.

Chg. the strut itself (the housing) only if you need a different spacing for larger calipers.

JCP911S

Yes, as Steve points out, replacement bushings are not always available.... I would agree that using the ER poly-bronze bearings are the only way to go... they are worth every penny.

SeattlePorsche

Hello Joel,

You will have doing all of this. What are you doing this weekend? I live in Newcastle and can show you what I did to my 81SC. You say you plan to use your 3.2 as a daily driver. I have some advice for you based on my experience with my changes. I have long term plans of using my car on the track with DE's, etc. But the car is so sweet that I couldn't resist using it as a daily driver for a few weeks (until I found I had a leak on my windshield; windshield is out of car now). My commute is 95% highway to Auburn or Federal Way, sometimes Tacoma. My ride is smooth the whole way and very exhilerating. But when I take my car to the streets of Seattle, well it is an uncomfortable ride. I would suggest not getting the Bilstein sports (yellow) if you will drive alot on the Seattle side. Get the Bilstein HD's (green) and it will be more comfortable.

My setup in the front is pretty much all new. My torsion bars are black in color, so Steve Weiner told me they are stock. I put in the ER polybronze bushings. They really aren't that expensive (unless you pay a mechanic to do it, then it will cost you alot of hours in labor). New ball joints. Turbo tie rods. New brake rotors, brake lines and calipers and pads (my calipers were frozen and not rebuildable.) Get your alignment when done from Byron at Tru-Line in Bellevue or his son in Seattle. I can give you a coupon for 25$ off.

You won't be over your head. Not with this board to turn to. You don't special tools. Just a metric socket kit. The hardest thing is the turbo tie rods, and you already have that in.

In summary, don't get the sports for Seattle. Come over this saturday and have a beer.

r911

you need a big socket ~~ 22mm IIRC for the top nut - otherwise std. stuff.

theiceman

Yep it's 22mm pretty standard stuff if you have a 1/2 inch drive socket set. I think the lower one on the rear is about a 17 or 19mm

Joel Lester

James,
Thanks for the information neighbor! I am going to the Driver Education event at Bremerton Raceway this weekend - my first real "outing" with this car. Are you going to be there? Maybe we could catch up then? I have been a go-kart racer since I was a kid and was doing a lot of road racing at SIR and PIR (Portland) for the last 10 years. Can't wait to take a real car around these tracks! BTW... my car is white and the licence plate is "86 911" (can't miss it!)

Anyway, as far as this project goes... I talked to some more people and got this recommendation. Please (anyboby) let me know what you think. Get the Bilstein "sport" shocks, but in addition, get the Elephant racing monoballs and shock tower brace along with poly bushings. I AREADY HAVE Turbo tei rods and bump steer kits. This car should handle awesome! (Like a go-kart!). Also, these things I am comforatble trying to do out of my very own garage.
Joel

theiceman

Sounds like James is your man to help out.. You should go out in his car since he did it all already !!

r911

The answer is above: "the very first thing you need to do is decide on what you want the car to do that it doesn't do right now."

What is your use or projected use over the next 10 years?

SeattlePorsche

Howdy neighbor.

It's funny, but once I got the rear shocks changed out and put my old front anti-roll bar in, my friend said that the car felt like a go cart. I have to agree, it felt very tight.

Ooh, ER monoballs. Very tempting for me to try, but I will see what you say first. I have everything in my front that you want to get except the monoballs and strut tower brace. You are welcome to take it for a spin.

Bremerton DE? Sounds like fun, but my 81SC is out of commision until I get the windshield replaced and first the front metal rim rust-proofed/repaired/repainted. I have a C4S, but I have heard that the SC is a better car to learn how to drive on the track because it is more raw and provides more feedback. But I would definitely like to try this with you this summer. I am gonna go through a crash course in engine dropping and transmission rebuilding this month. Iceman, head on over and join us!

It sounds like you want to track this car alot, so go with the Bilstein sports. (I am no expert, but I enjoy mine. I can put up with the bumpiness of Seattle's streets for the handling.) Did any of the guys you spoke with mention anything about changing out your torsion bars? Steve Weiner mentioned recently that it is important to have a spring rate that matches up with your dampening, but I don't know what size that would be. I have stock t-bars in mine. Kick *** at Bremerton. I am jealous.

theiceman

Sure James , sounds like a plan .. I'll be right over .. Keep the beer cold