Where do I place jack stand on my SC?
04-20-2006, 10:03 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Where do I place jack stand on my SC?
If someone could post a picture of the best location to use, front and rear, but rear is most important at this moment. Tomorrow I need to pull both rear wheels off to install my roll bar and I'm not sure what is safe underneath to use.
04-20-2006, 11:11 PM
#3
Rennlist Junkie Forever
I use the following places for jack stands only
Front:
A) way up front, where the three (3) bolts are that bolt the torsion tube carrier to the chassis. I mount it
Rear:
A) Inside on torsion tube carrrier
-
B) On outside of torsion tube carrier
TonyG
Front:
A) way up front, where the three (3) bolts are that bolt the torsion tube carrier to the chassis. I mount it
Rear:
A) Inside on torsion tube carrrier
-
B) On outside of torsion tube carrier
TonyG
04-21-2006, 11:58 AM
#6
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>You can jack from the bottom of the motor to raise the rear.
(Just incase you didn't know)<<<
Yes... Use a block of wood though.
Better yet, get the jack tool that slides into the side of the car under each door.
TonyG
-
(Just incase you didn't know)<<<
Yes... Use a block of wood though.
Better yet, get the jack tool that slides into the side of the car under each door.
TonyG
-
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04-21-2006, 07:04 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Rick: Just a second opinion on jackstand points. There is a very real chance that, if the front stands are placed as pictured above, that they could slip. When I use stands I place them in one of two positions, either just to the rear of the forward bushings, or just forward of the rear bushings, in either case along the tube of the lower control arm. Be careful that the cradle of the stand dosn't touch the gas tank. If you use the lift from the side method placement of the stands becomes even more important, don't try to get the car as high as you need it in one try on each side. If you lift side #1 too high the load against your jack when you lift side #2 can be a little scary. When I lift my car this way I only go as high as the lowest adjustment on the stands on side #1, then a little higher on side #2, then back to side #1. People don't treat this issue as seriously as I do, I know two people that have had a car fall on them. The rear stands can be placed on the outboard extensions of the torsion bar carrier. I don't like to use the inboard locations shown because of the possibility of trapping a vacuum hose or a wire harness. Plus, you're unprotected as you place the stand. Another thing I always do is to keep my floor jack under the car somewhere, as a 5th jack stand. I usually put it under the diff housing, if nothing else it's a good confidence booster.
A general comment: Refer to the car pictured above, the one with the badly rusted anti-roll bar. In CA when I look under a car with that level of deterioration it tells me that I'm looking at a typical gray-market car, and will find rust in other places. Is this type of rust apparent on cars that have been used in New England, Canada, and parts of the mid-west where the dreaded salt is used on the roads? Also, unlike the typical CA car, the bushing inside the rear bearing cover looks wiped out. Of course, it could be the angle the photo was taken from, but my 200K mile car still has nice even clearance around the circumference of the hole in the cover. Again, in the harsher climates do your cars experience early bushing wear, even before 100K miles, and is this why there is so much bushing discussion on this forum?
Pete
A general comment: Refer to the car pictured above, the one with the badly rusted anti-roll bar. In CA when I look under a car with that level of deterioration it tells me that I'm looking at a typical gray-market car, and will find rust in other places. Is this type of rust apparent on cars that have been used in New England, Canada, and parts of the mid-west where the dreaded salt is used on the roads? Also, unlike the typical CA car, the bushing inside the rear bearing cover looks wiped out. Of course, it could be the angle the photo was taken from, but my 200K mile car still has nice even clearance around the circumference of the hole in the cover. Again, in the harsher climates do your cars experience early bushing wear, even before 100K miles, and is this why there is so much bushing discussion on this forum?
Pete
04-21-2006, 09:02 PM
#9
Rennlist Junkie Forever
>>>There is a very real chance that, if the front stands are placed as pictured above, that they could slip<<<
Yes... if there was an earthquake (exaggeration).
The stands are not going anywhere if you lift the car side-to-side. When you lift the car you have to use basic common sense, and not lift the car 45 degrees on one side at time.
If you lift the rear of the car a lot, then yes... they could slip (on this particular car).. but the car would not fall on you. The jack would simply slide forward an inch or two and stop at the pan. This is a common sense thing.
However, most cars have a front a/c condenser and the scrape bar. Both of which, when present, will "lock-in" the jack stand so that it cannot slip... even if you lift the rear of the car 30 degrees.
>>>I don't like to use the inboard locations shown because of the possibility of trapping a vacuum hose or a wire harness<<<
That's why you LOOK before you lower the car down and you LOOK where you set the jack stands. Again... this is a common sense issue. (not that it's easy to set the car on anything anyway)
The reality is this is the by far the best spot to support the rear of the car.
With respect to your comments that should have been back on the grey market car thread (which were mostly inaccurate anyway), and which have zero relevance here (is there a moderator anywhere?)....
If you would like, I can take the time to debunk some more Rennlist BS. I'd love to address the BS point -by-point. But it's not worth the time.
Just say the word...
TonyG
There's nothing worse
Yes... if there was an earthquake (exaggeration).
The stands are not going anywhere if you lift the car side-to-side. When you lift the car you have to use basic common sense, and not lift the car 45 degrees on one side at time.
If you lift the rear of the car a lot, then yes... they could slip (on this particular car).. but the car would not fall on you. The jack would simply slide forward an inch or two and stop at the pan. This is a common sense thing.
However, most cars have a front a/c condenser and the scrape bar. Both of which, when present, will "lock-in" the jack stand so that it cannot slip... even if you lift the rear of the car 30 degrees.
>>>I don't like to use the inboard locations shown because of the possibility of trapping a vacuum hose or a wire harness<<<
That's why you LOOK before you lower the car down and you LOOK where you set the jack stands. Again... this is a common sense issue. (not that it's easy to set the car on anything anyway)
The reality is this is the by far the best spot to support the rear of the car.
With respect to your comments that should have been back on the grey market car thread (which were mostly inaccurate anyway), and which have zero relevance here (is there a moderator anywhere?)....
If you would like, I can take the time to debunk some more Rennlist BS. I'd love to address the BS point -by-point. But it's not worth the time.
Just say the word...
TonyG
There's nothing worse
04-23-2006, 03:59 PM
#10
Team Owner
Hey Pete ...
Man you need to get out more :-)
That level of rust is fairly normal under Canadian cars and I would consider that surface rust.. just enough to lift the paint but not structural at all . I must say however I am always envious when I look at pics of cars posted from California and the exchangers look like new after 25 years. I am sure lots of Northern US cars would look like this due to the salt as you had indcated. As a rule I would say that this is the majority of cars out there not the exception, but given the 2 major centres for Porsches in the US seem to be Miami and Claifornia, this kinda skews things ..
have a good one.
I will check my bushings and get back to you.
PS on the front jack stand points do youhave a pic of where they would go ? I am not sure where you mean from your description.. oh by the way Hershey was a washout but I did get e new fuel sender unit for 20.00 !
Man you need to get out more :-)
That level of rust is fairly normal under Canadian cars and I would consider that surface rust.. just enough to lift the paint but not structural at all . I must say however I am always envious when I look at pics of cars posted from California and the exchangers look like new after 25 years. I am sure lots of Northern US cars would look like this due to the salt as you had indcated. As a rule I would say that this is the majority of cars out there not the exception, but given the 2 major centres for Porsches in the US seem to be Miami and Claifornia, this kinda skews things ..
have a good one.
I will check my bushings and get back to you.
PS on the front jack stand points do youhave a pic of where they would go ? I am not sure where you mean from your description.. oh by the way Hershey was a washout but I did get e new fuel sender unit for 20.00 !
Last edited by theiceman; 04-24-2006 at 08:58 AM.
04-24-2006, 01:33 AM
#11
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann
Rick: Just a second opinion on jackstand points. There is a very real chance that, if the front stands are placed as pictured above, that they could slip. When I use stands I place them in one of two positions, either just to the rear of the forward bushings, or just forward of the rear bushings, in either case along the tube of the lower control arm. Be careful that the cradle of the stand dosn't touch the gas tank. If you use the lift from the side method placement of the stands becomes even more important, don't try to get the car as high as you need it in one try on each side. If you lift side #1 too high the load against your jack when you lift side #2 can be a little scary. When I lift my car this way I only go as high as the lowest adjustment on the stands on side #1, then a little higher on side #2, then back to side #1. People don't treat this issue as seriously as I do, I know two people that have had a car fall on them. The rear stands can be placed on the outboard extensions of the torsion bar carrier. I don't like to use the inboard locations shown because of the possibility of trapping a vacuum hose or a wire harness. Plus, you're unprotected as you place the stand. Another thing I always do is to keep my floor jack under the car somewhere, as a 5th jack stand. I usually put it under the diff housing, if nothing else it's a good confidence booster.
A general comment: Refer to the car pictured above, the one with the badly rusted anti-roll bar. In CA when I look under a car with that level of deterioration it tells me that I'm looking at a typical gray-market car, and will find rust in other places. Is this type of rust apparent on cars that have been used in New England, Canada, and parts of the mid-west where the dreaded salt is used on the roads? Also, unlike the typical CA car, the bushing inside the rear bearing cover looks wiped out. Of course, it could be the angle the photo was taken from, but my 200K mile car still has nice even clearance around the circumference of the hole in the cover. Again, in the harsher climates do your cars experience early bushing wear, even before 100K miles, and is this why there is so much bushing discussion on this forum?
Pete
A general comment: Refer to the car pictured above, the one with the badly rusted anti-roll bar. In CA when I look under a car with that level of deterioration it tells me that I'm looking at a typical gray-market car, and will find rust in other places. Is this type of rust apparent on cars that have been used in New England, Canada, and parts of the mid-west where the dreaded salt is used on the roads? Also, unlike the typical CA car, the bushing inside the rear bearing cover looks wiped out. Of course, it could be the angle the photo was taken from, but my 200K mile car still has nice even clearance around the circumference of the hole in the cover. Again, in the harsher climates do your cars experience early bushing wear, even before 100K miles, and is this why there is so much bushing discussion on this forum?
Pete
A few questions.
For the front, I will sometimes use the front t-bar mount but more often than not, will go behind the front wheel where the unibody turns up to form a "kinda" flat place. I notice my regular wrench uses this spot to lift. Your thoughts?
For the rear, there seems to be a school of thought to jack via the engine seam but I have a problem with that since you are lifting your car by it's single most expensive component and damage would be a bad thing. Can you weigh in on this practice?
Thanks.
04-24-2006, 12:14 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Hi Harry: The flat surface you speak of can be fragile if you get a little too far toward the rear of the car. When you look at that area you will find an almost knife-edged vertical joint that gracefully follows the curve of the floor. Putting your jack, with a short piece of wood, directly under that edge provides a wonderful place to lift, that knife edge seam is extremely strong. The floor section next to it will bend if wood or a jack contacts it directly. You will see damage on many cars if you lift a front floor mat and look at the car's floor near and below the clutch pedal - often that section of floor will show an upward bow caused by a badly placed jack. But, anytime jackstands are used I never use pieces of wood - just one more thing that can slip if you're loosening something tight (the front skid plate bolts to access the fuel pump, etc.). That's why I like the safe alternative mentioned above, the tubular part of the lower control arm that the torsion bar lives inside of. (Ice: The tube section that runs parallel to the outer sides of the gas tank - as long as the stand is under that tube, as close to the front bushing or rear bushing as you can get it, that will provide a solid support.) If your car has A/C with the front condenser you shouldn't lift against the cross member immediately in front of the gas tank, unless you have pieces of wood that allow you to lift without damaging the cross member or condenser (the above pictured car appears to have a damaged cross member although pics sometimes lie). If your car has A/C and has been lowered most jacks won't work in that situation. My shop had three hoists, all were usually taken. In case an emergency came in we had no fewer than 4 jacks, all configured differently for different situations.
Regarding lifting the rear, my last option is using the engine. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I dont like lifting against the seam where the crankcase halves meet. I much prefer to put the floor jack under the trans diff housing, which is extremely strong. Unfortunately I don't think that many readily available floor jacks are user friendly when they're that far under the car. If the car is lowered forget it, you just about have to lift it from the side. Jacking on the underbody has a secondary issue also, the A/C hoses. Those hoses are clamped to the floor and usually run right next to the vertical seams that I've already mentioned. Yes, those seams are also in the rear. If a piece of 2x4 is used on the jack cradle you can usually lift against the seams without damaging the A/C lines, but it's a judgment call. The best thing to have is a jack plate, pictured above, and go a little at a time, alternating sides.
Pete
Regarding lifting the rear, my last option is using the engine. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I dont like lifting against the seam where the crankcase halves meet. I much prefer to put the floor jack under the trans diff housing, which is extremely strong. Unfortunately I don't think that many readily available floor jacks are user friendly when they're that far under the car. If the car is lowered forget it, you just about have to lift it from the side. Jacking on the underbody has a secondary issue also, the A/C hoses. Those hoses are clamped to the floor and usually run right next to the vertical seams that I've already mentioned. Yes, those seams are also in the rear. If a piece of 2x4 is used on the jack cradle you can usually lift against the seams without damaging the A/C lines, but it's a judgment call. The best thing to have is a jack plate, pictured above, and go a little at a time, alternating sides.
Pete
04-24-2006, 12:34 PM
#13
Rennlist Junkie Forever
theiceman
>>>That level of rust is fairly normal under Canadian cars and I would consider that surface rust.. just enough to lift the paint but not structural at all .<<<
I went back and actually looked under that car sicne Pete made the car out to be a "rust bucket". With respect to the "badly rusted anti-roll bar" ----- It's not an issue of rust lifting the paint. It's an issue of something (probably a rock) hitting the sway bar and chipping off the paint, exposing the metal.
I agree, the rust is trivial and definitely not a "badly rusted anti-roll bar".
This sort of thing is actually quite common. I've got a few stock rear sway bars here (off of USA cars BTW) which have the same thing... chipped off paint with light surface rust. No biggie.
TonyG
>>>That level of rust is fairly normal under Canadian cars and I would consider that surface rust.. just enough to lift the paint but not structural at all .<<<
I went back and actually looked under that car sicne Pete made the car out to be a "rust bucket". With respect to the "badly rusted anti-roll bar" ----- It's not an issue of rust lifting the paint. It's an issue of something (probably a rock) hitting the sway bar and chipping off the paint, exposing the metal.
I agree, the rust is trivial and definitely not a "badly rusted anti-roll bar".
This sort of thing is actually quite common. I've got a few stock rear sway bars here (off of USA cars BTW) which have the same thing... chipped off paint with light surface rust. No biggie.
TonyG
04-24-2006, 12:59 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Ice: Great price of the fuel sender! I bought my last one from the dealer, if I remember right it was more than 3x that!
Thanks for your response on the rust/corrosion. I know, us CA boys are really spoiled. We don't even have to know how to cut exhaust hardware off with a torch, we just grab a couple of box end wrenches and go to work. My curiosity regarding my above questions (triggered by the pics posted on this thread, not another one) involves work that I'm doing for the 9th edition of my book (the 8th went to market this past January). I'm intimately familiar with gray conversions; I did two '85 Carreras, in '85, for an investor, and had complete control of the project from the dock to the test lab. I used all factory components to do those cars, and over the next 15 years never saw another conversion done as well. My work, for the book, involves the incredible assortment of butchered cars that came through the shop, and what had to be done to them to get them close to being "Porsches" again. I need feedback from honest, observant owners to try to get an idea as to how our cars suffer in dfferent climates, and if those cars should somehow be grouped with gray market cars, or put in a sub-group somewhere between great USA cars and the typical gray market car. I've got great contacts in New England, the mid-west and the northwest, but my project is in the early stages. Valuation of these cars will be a real challenge, Sports Car Market Magazine has placed serious deductions on them, and I don't think that Edmunds even considers them for analysis. Anyway, here's the pic you asked for so I don't completely hijack this thread!
Pete
Thanks for your response on the rust/corrosion. I know, us CA boys are really spoiled. We don't even have to know how to cut exhaust hardware off with a torch, we just grab a couple of box end wrenches and go to work. My curiosity regarding my above questions (triggered by the pics posted on this thread, not another one) involves work that I'm doing for the 9th edition of my book (the 8th went to market this past January). I'm intimately familiar with gray conversions; I did two '85 Carreras, in '85, for an investor, and had complete control of the project from the dock to the test lab. I used all factory components to do those cars, and over the next 15 years never saw another conversion done as well. My work, for the book, involves the incredible assortment of butchered cars that came through the shop, and what had to be done to them to get them close to being "Porsches" again. I need feedback from honest, observant owners to try to get an idea as to how our cars suffer in dfferent climates, and if those cars should somehow be grouped with gray market cars, or put in a sub-group somewhere between great USA cars and the typical gray market car. I've got great contacts in New England, the mid-west and the northwest, but my project is in the early stages. Valuation of these cars will be a real challenge, Sports Car Market Magazine has placed serious deductions on them, and I don't think that Edmunds even considers them for analysis. Anyway, here's the pic you asked for so I don't completely hijack this thread!
Pete
04-24-2006, 02:00 PM
#15
Race Car
Rust on the torsion plate.
I would worry about it as they rust from the inside out.
Took mine off this weekend to find major rust build up on the inside.
After removing the rust, there was a hole all the way through.
This was on the front and back and the top and bottom were mint.
The outside looked mint as well.
BTW - Where can you buy new ones?
I would worry about it as they rust from the inside out.
Took mine off this weekend to find major rust build up on the inside.
After removing the rust, there was a hole all the way through.
This was on the front and back and the top and bottom were mint.
The outside looked mint as well.
BTW - Where can you buy new ones?