Porsche 911 or Mercedes 560SL? HELP!
06-21-2003, 02:19 PM
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Porsche 911 or Mercedes 560SL? HELP!
Hi everyone,
I'm very close to buying a 1988 911 coupe, my first Porsche. I've done a lot of research and am really excited about the car and the prospect of driving it every day. It has 80,000 miles on it and will cost me $22,000.
However, a friend of mine just asked me whether I wanted to buy his 1989 560SL; it's in great shape with similar miles, and it's a convertible with hard top option. He would sell it to me for $15,000 (he is retiring and reducing his stable; all of his cars are professionally looked after).
So now I'm wondering: should the 7k difference be enough to make me switch to a Merc? Has anybody driven both cars and can give me a comparison? Which is the more reliable car (I need a daily driver)? Which is cheaper to maintain? How about winter driving--is the Merc equally susceptible to snow and salt as the Porsche? Please help with your insights--I really want to have the Porsche but I have to convince the wife!
I guess I have good idea what you'll answer if I asked which is the more fun car....
Beethoven
I'm very close to buying a 1988 911 coupe, my first Porsche. I've done a lot of research and am really excited about the car and the prospect of driving it every day. It has 80,000 miles on it and will cost me $22,000.
However, a friend of mine just asked me whether I wanted to buy his 1989 560SL; it's in great shape with similar miles, and it's a convertible with hard top option. He would sell it to me for $15,000 (he is retiring and reducing his stable; all of his cars are professionally looked after).
So now I'm wondering: should the 7k difference be enough to make me switch to a Merc? Has anybody driven both cars and can give me a comparison? Which is the more reliable car (I need a daily driver)? Which is cheaper to maintain? How about winter driving--is the Merc equally susceptible to snow and salt as the Porsche? Please help with your insights--I really want to have the Porsche but I have to convince the wife!
I guess I have good idea what you'll answer if I asked which is the more fun car....
Beethoven
06-21-2003, 04:01 PM
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One is more a performance car than a status car, and one is more a status car than a performance car.
If I only wanted to impress people around town, or if I knew I'd be frequently driving with passengers and tossing the keys to valets a lot, I'd get the Mercedes. If you love taking an afternoon in the country and tearing up some twisty roads, then the 911 will be much more satisfying.
A 911 is kind of a 'selfish' car, if I can say that without making it sound negative. It's about the driver and the driving experience. It's about not compromising for the sake of comfort, passengers or other drivers. A Mercedes is more of a 'social' car. It's comfortable.
They're both great cars, but very different.
Carrera prices are dropping. 22K is not a huge bargain for what you're looking at (although it's not a complete rip-off, either).
If I only wanted to impress people around town, or if I knew I'd be frequently driving with passengers and tossing the keys to valets a lot, I'd get the Mercedes. If you love taking an afternoon in the country and tearing up some twisty roads, then the 911 will be much more satisfying.
A 911 is kind of a 'selfish' car, if I can say that without making it sound negative. It's about the driver and the driving experience. It's about not compromising for the sake of comfort, passengers or other drivers. A Mercedes is more of a 'social' car. It's comfortable.
They're both great cars, but very different.
Carrera prices are dropping. 22K is not a huge bargain for what you're looking at (although it's not a complete rip-off, either).
06-21-2003, 07:00 PM
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I've owned a 1988 560 SL and currently own both a 1993 500SL and 1987 911. Two different animals. The 560 is real small inside and dosen't handle anywhere near the 911.. For sheer driving pleasure the 911 beats the 560 hands down. I sold the 560 and bought the500SL and find it to be a much more refined car than the 560. But neither can compare to the pleasure I get driving the 911.IMHO
06-21-2003, 07:25 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JackOlsen:
<strong>One is more a performance car than a status car, and one is more a status car than a performance car.
If I only wanted to impress people around town, or if I knew I'd be frequently driving with passengers and tossing the keys to valets a lot, I'd get the Mercedes.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Helmut,
I'm not certain there's much, if any, "status" to be had or many people (valets or otherwise) that would be awestruck by a 14 year old, 2 generations removed SL, unless perhaps you had been transported to some sort of Beverly Hills Cop era time warp. Or by a 911 of similar vintage either, for that matter. Both would be pretty ineffective tools if that was the primary goal, IMO. Lease an XK8 if you want to be a poseur. But, as you're not in LA, I assume that's not the reason you're considering either car.
That being said, I would echo Marc's comments above to drive both cars, and consider how you (and your wife as well, if she'll be driving it) intend to use it. They are as different as chalk and cheese, and the 911 will seem quite raw and direct in comparison to the plush, almost 2 ton SL.
Then buy the 911 and be done with it.
Good luck,
Tim
<strong>One is more a performance car than a status car, and one is more a status car than a performance car.
If I only wanted to impress people around town, or if I knew I'd be frequently driving with passengers and tossing the keys to valets a lot, I'd get the Mercedes.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Helmut,
I'm not certain there's much, if any, "status" to be had or many people (valets or otherwise) that would be awestruck by a 14 year old, 2 generations removed SL, unless perhaps you had been transported to some sort of Beverly Hills Cop era time warp. Or by a 911 of similar vintage either, for that matter. Both would be pretty ineffective tools if that was the primary goal, IMO. Lease an XK8 if you want to be a poseur. But, as you're not in LA, I assume that's not the reason you're considering either car.
That being said, I would echo Marc's comments above to drive both cars, and consider how you (and your wife as well, if she'll be driving it) intend to use it. They are as different as chalk and cheese, and the 911 will seem quite raw and direct in comparison to the plush, almost 2 ton SL.
Then buy the 911 and be done with it.
Good luck,
Tim
06-21-2003, 07:44 PM
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May I ask whether you think it would be murder to drive the 911 throughout the winter in Chicago--taking the train on those beloved blizzard days but otherwise using it as the daily driver? The car was pampered, is in top shape in and out, and "has never seen snow or rain". But surely these car are winter tested in Germany? And if I made sure to give the car an undercarriage wash every week?
As you can see, I'm desperately trying to make economic sense of this decision--and the addition of having to buy a winter beater does not make my case against the Mercedes stronger. I probably would have no compunction to drive the Merc all year.I actually drove it a few months back and although it was pleasant and plush, I was not particularly excited.
Thanks for your input.
As you can see, I'm desperately trying to make economic sense of this decision--and the addition of having to buy a winter beater does not make my case against the Mercedes stronger. I probably would have no compunction to drive the Merc all year.I actually drove it a few months back and although it was pleasant and plush, I was not particularly excited.
Thanks for your input.
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06-21-2003, 10:02 PM
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One draw back to driving the Porsche in winter might be the heater and I can't say for sure it would be a problem I'm sure someone else on this board has better knowledge of this. If you'll read your last post you answered your own question . Welcome to the world of Porsche !
Jim
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06-21-2003, 10:14 PM
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Porsches are great in cold weather - mine always ran best when the temperature was around freezing. The heaters work better than any other vehicle - too well sometimes.
This is a no brainer - drive both and you will see what I mean.
BTW: I think $22K for a 80K mile car is too much. I bet I could find one for that money with half the mileage. It would take a little while, but I know I could do it.
This is a no brainer - drive both and you will see what I mean.
BTW: I think $22K for a 80K mile car is too much. I bet I could find one for that money with half the mileage. It would take a little while, but I know I could do it.
06-21-2003, 10:39 PM
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My father has a 560 SL he bought it new in 1986 and still has it with 72000 miles. You wanna talk about rattles and creaks, oh year dont forge the cowl shake. Even with 560 motor its a DOG. The steering wheel looks like it belongs on an 18 wheeler and the throttle spring is so stiff you've got to mash the dam thing to get it to move. The part i really like the best is the 12 mpg its gets while lumbering down the road. Its okay on a summer day when you're guiding it down the road, you dont drive those things you sort of guide them down the road.
06-21-2003, 10:46 PM
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A few decades ago (guess I just aged myself..laughing) I didn't have the means for a "foul" weather car. But had to have that porsche. I drove a 66 912 everyday for 5 years (live in northern indiana where the snow hits). Handled good and even the old cars heater worked fairly well. Wish I still have that car. Today..i drive both cars 9 months out of the year rotating them as daily drivers (911SC Targa and 928S). Buy it, enjoy it, drive it all the time! And save the Mercedes for some time long in the future when thrills are hazardous to ones health!
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06-22-2003, 01:49 AM
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I had a '73 450SL, considered best year for that body style due to small bumpers & lack of emissions. I had the car from 1989 to 1991 & loved it. But, I lived in San Diego at the time. I'm not sure I'd feel the same way about that model of SL in Chicago. I've had 2 other Mercedes, and they are great cars. I don't think you can go wrong with a nice SL. That being said, I've looked again to buy another one 3 or 4 times since '91, and always shied away after comparing them to other cars. There is little sport to driving one. I always felt that the mission of that body style of SL was to isolate you from the nastiness of the road surface and keep the peasantry at bay. If that's what you want, and as someone else mentioned, 12 mpg in the bargain, then go for the SL.
I've also almost purchased a Porsche on several occasions in the past, but always went another direction in the end. . . up until 3 months ago. I bought a 1990 Carrera 2 Coupe. I can tell you that you've got to experience a Porsche at least once in your life just for the sport in driving. I flew jets for the Navy for 6 years off aircraft carriers. By far the closest driving experience I've had to flying is in this 911. So, my recommendation would be to buy the 911, and if you hate it, then sell it and buy an SL. At least then you'll know what Porsche is all about. What you get with the SL you can experience by looking at it; you've got to live with the Porsche for a little while.
By the way, I bought my 1990 C2 Coupe in March for $16,500 (110,000 miles, though versus yours at 80,000), so I agree that $22,000 for the one you're looking at is a bit high. $18,000-$19,000 is closer to market value, assuming its in nice shape. Good luck.
I've also almost purchased a Porsche on several occasions in the past, but always went another direction in the end. . . up until 3 months ago. I bought a 1990 Carrera 2 Coupe. I can tell you that you've got to experience a Porsche at least once in your life just for the sport in driving. I flew jets for the Navy for 6 years off aircraft carriers. By far the closest driving experience I've had to flying is in this 911. So, my recommendation would be to buy the 911, and if you hate it, then sell it and buy an SL. At least then you'll know what Porsche is all about. What you get with the SL you can experience by looking at it; you've got to live with the Porsche for a little while.
By the way, I bought my 1990 C2 Coupe in March for $16,500 (110,000 miles, though versus yours at 80,000), so I agree that $22,000 for the one you're looking at is a bit high. $18,000-$19,000 is closer to market value, assuming its in nice shape. Good luck.
06-22-2003, 07:58 AM
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Thanks, guys, for helping me over my dark hour of doubt!
Of course I knew the answer to my question, but it's still good to hear it from others. I'd probably not forgive myself if I passed on the chance of owning and driving a Porsche.
I agree that $22,000 is on the high end of the spectrum, but I have to do the deal long distance and thus have to find a car where the owner is forthcoming in providing service documents, where I could speak at length to the mechanic who has serviced the car for years and who works for a nationally know Porsche dealership, where the owner is a PCA member (not that they are all angels, but still gives you some coordinates)-- in short where I could be reasonably sure this is a solid and reliable car. If all goes well I'm going to pick it up next week and drive it back to Chicago--wish me luck!
After three or for PPI's where the inspecting mechanic would say things like "we cannot exclude that this '90 C2 has a cylinder-head leak, and we cannot determine whether the clutch has been updated" I decided to stay away from 964s although I really like their looks and know that they are not all problematic. Maybe in a few years I'll trade up.
I hope soon my posts will be less philosophical and more like "what's that **** on the center console for?" or "is cruising at 140 mph bad for the motor?"
Beethoven
Of course I knew the answer to my question, but it's still good to hear it from others. I'd probably not forgive myself if I passed on the chance of owning and driving a Porsche.
I agree that $22,000 is on the high end of the spectrum, but I have to do the deal long distance and thus have to find a car where the owner is forthcoming in providing service documents, where I could speak at length to the mechanic who has serviced the car for years and who works for a nationally know Porsche dealership, where the owner is a PCA member (not that they are all angels, but still gives you some coordinates)-- in short where I could be reasonably sure this is a solid and reliable car. If all goes well I'm going to pick it up next week and drive it back to Chicago--wish me luck!
After three or for PPI's where the inspecting mechanic would say things like "we cannot exclude that this '90 C2 has a cylinder-head leak, and we cannot determine whether the clutch has been updated" I decided to stay away from 964s although I really like their looks and know that they are not all problematic. Maybe in a few years I'll trade up.
I hope soon my posts will be less philosophical and more like "what's that **** on the center console for?" or "is cruising at 140 mph bad for the motor?"
Beethoven
06-22-2003, 12:32 PM
#15
Is the Benz a convertable?? If so, buy it. Nice comfortable car, and I personlly LOVE softtops. And, although it won't give you a WOW factor it will offer you a bit more "status image" than 80% of other cars even if it is old. Love the styling of those cars. THEN, add a few more bucks and get a SC!! I have soft spot for SL500 but I still love my 993. I say get both!