theiceman

you guys should check out the google videos " top gear" review of the new mustang. It is hilareous. They talk about American muscle cars and there arch enemy ... " the corner " ...

imcarthur

Posted in the CGT forum - post by Les Quam: CGT Forum Link
fwiw

Ian

JCP911S

I have some experience on the track, have been a PCA instructor for about 10 years, raced for the last 4 years, and have absolutely no desire to drive a C-GT in anger... it is simply too fast. This is not to diparage the car or its owners... just recognize that I personally, do not believe I have the capability to handle that much speed.

Enviroteacher924S

We had a guy in our region bring his to our event. He left the PSM on the whole time. He said even with the PSM on he was still sending it sideways in the turns when he would give it any gas. You have to be a special driver to drive one of those fast I think. The guy at our event was getting passed alot and all he said was that he wasn't ready to push it in that car. I think it was a good call!

My87Targa

i would kill to drive a CGT

Greg A

The CGT has traction control, not PSM.

Greg A

fixnprsh

I dont think anyone should be allowed to sue for an accident like that, but you have to love scum bag lawyers. It has been proven that a CGT is completely capable and trackable car, its not Porsche fault that the events that transpired in this particular case, ended in unfortunate tragedy. Hopefully this guy's family wins NO money and is forced to PAY Porsches legal bills as the do in England

I could point out MUCH more dangerous cars, like a KIA compact car that will do 120MPH, or a 1 Ton Dodge that will turn a 13 sec 1/4 mile and can easily break 100MPH on the highway with insuffiecent brakes and design to cope with it.

Its also not Porsches fault that people can't drive. Accidents are called "accidents for a reason". If you are acting stupid and kill yourself, Its just cleaning the gene pool. If you kill an innocent bystander, than if you live, you shoud pay for your stupidity.

If my brother was in that car, no amount of money awarded to me would bring him back. So whats the point? Its all about greedy people and greedy lawyers

It would be like my family suing smith and wesson because the gun fired when I pointed it at my head, pulled the trigger and splattered my brains on the wall. But I'm sure there is some scum bag, abulance chasing attorney that would take that case too.

2002M3Drew

Mostly agree, except that I place the majority of blame in lawsuits on the plaintiff...not their attorney. Attorneys don't sue people...PEOPLE SUE PEOPLE. Yes, the lawyer is the conduit, but then again, you could almost clear them of responsibility just as you did the Smith and Wesson in your example above.

I always get the feeling that families in matters like this one sue to gain closure, and to have someone that is officially accountable for an otherwise unexplainable tragedy. I hate it for the family of Ben Keaton, though, who are obviously going through grief of their own, and now have to deal with this as well.

As it boils down, though, its tough to see any responsibility on the track, the track officials, the club(s), or the manufacturers. There was a man driving that car that caused that accident, and responsibility falls squarely there IMO.

fixnprsh

EXACTLY!!!! Hopefulyy the judge and jury feel the same. What a crappy thing to put a greiving family through and a slap in the face IMO

If it were only about closure, there would be no money involved and no need to have HALF the defendants listed that are. They are all there so they can collect the total amount from ALL parties. i.e. if the judgement is 25million, if they can only get $500K from the promoters befroe they bankrupt them, then they move on to the family, then Porsche, etc, etc in whatever order

I feel and have seen lawyers push people into filing lawsuits by alsorts of dirty tactics. Lawyers are like technicians, not ALL of them are crooked, a fair amount are, and the rest get bunch'd in.

r911

std. procedure to sue 'em all -- just like the Airborne patch "kill 'em all & let god sort it out"

they just sue everybody in sight and the obvious innocents will be dropped out later. the remaining defendants can then finger point at each other and maybe reveal something the plaintiff can use.

sounds like FEMA vs. Homeland Security, doesn't it?

imcarthur

If you read through that thread, you will find that it is insurance co vs insurance co. That helps explain the buckshot approach.

Ian

JCP911S

Just a sidenote, but if I remember correctly, the actual cause of the accident was a Ferrari pulling out of the pits into the path of the CGT... several contributing factors...

1) I believe the Ferrari was either given a "go" by the pit-out, or there was no pit-out... I can't remember...that would have to be confirmed

2) In either event, the Ferrari did not check for clear track... regardless of the pit control, the driver leaving the pits is responsibile for a safe merge...

3) The Ferrari pulled into the racing line... presumably, prematurely, but again, I do not kinow the exact layout of the track in question, so it is hard to make a judgement call on this... this is just what I heard.

4) The CGT was not able to avoid the Ferrari... whether this was too much speed, inattention, lack of control of the CGT, or unsafe move by the Ferrari, or a combination, I cannot vouch for...

THis could land on either driver or both or the event organizers not provideing sufficent pit control or training on procedues.... etc, etc, etc,,,

Certainly it is not the car's fault... I do not think there was any indication of mechanical failure

Again, if I got the facts wrong, it was a while ago, and my brain ain't what it used to be... (if it ever was)

Peter Zimmermann

JCP: Your statements are exactly on the money with what I've learned about the accident. Having raced a number of years in SCCA I know that the merge must be done correctly because the closing rate can be huge. The CGT and other cars that attended that DE are a heck of a lot faster than many of the cars that I raced with, but I've never attended one of their track days so I can't comment on the level of seriousness that is stressed by their stewards.
Pete

theiceman

I created this thread only about the curiosity I had about the number of crashes ( not knowing about the Miles incident ) . This is obviously bringing up a lot of painfull memories for people and perhaps it is time for a moderator to close the thread.... moving on.

2002M3Drew

I agree with you as well, and have heard all of those details discussed here and in other forums. I still believe, though, that ultimately responsibility in cases like this is in the hands of the person driving the car (or cars, in this case). Especially when you have a passenger who now is trusting their life in your hands, you have to make whatever concessions you need to in your driving to keep the level of risk commensurate with the exposure. Based on the images we all saw from that wreckage, the driver was beyond a limit at which he could safely avoid foreseeable on-track events, like a car pulling out of the pits improperly (if that is what happened). (Keep in mind that this is DE, and the cars should be under control at all times anyway. A Ferrari coming out of the pits is not like it's falling out of the sky.)

Whataver happened, though, it was surely an accident of the most innocent nature, and a tragedy for at least three families to have to endure.