Survey: gas mileage
12-28-2005, 02:11 AM
#16
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to add to Jay's references, Helmuth Bott, at the '68 intro of the 911T, in commenting on its remarkable perf; that one could "... put the advantage of reduced drag... to the credit of economy". In medium to fast driving that model delivered 18 mpg.
12-28-2005, 04:36 AM
#17
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KC911,
so driving a P meaning you have not to know how your car cosume gas? What if one day your car has problem for instant leaking gas and you must not known about it too? hohoho.
To me, doesn't matter which car I am driving, I would like to know everything about it, if posible.
No harm. Only discussion. And I do feel you are making some humor here.
mstupp,
you might think diff from what I think but I think it does. In fact, I know that any car manufacture out there do think about gas consumtion when they design any car. Except, maybe Viper. Which is a muscle car and MANY people call it a meat head car.
Emac,
I remember there were so many threads asking about prepurchase research/question and someone jumped instead of giving opinion, he wrote the same phrase "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". Well, if you don't ask, how the hell do you know if you can afford it or not? I did asked and asked many questions and here I am. I think an idiot would jump in to buying car for the look and handling and such but knowing nothing about cost maintenant and other factors.
To this topic, I think knowing more and more about my car is only good. There is no bad side of it.
Yes, there is the cost of driving a P or any real sport car out there but if, I said if, there is a way of making your car drive the same way, inthe same condition, and consume less gas. Would you like ti try? Don't tell me you don't :lol: This is a little off my topic but it's related to your response.
S2TGART,
Exactly, I feel that I have to know. Even though no one response me in this board regard this topic, I still want to find out. Yes, I am inpress I can get 20mpg from this car.
It's not that I do not care. In fact I do care. Let me put it this way. If your car is running stock, or almost stock, and you are spending 10mpg while others spending 20mpg driving the same car. Do you care? Regarding gpm and also your car is having problem. Whoever say they don't care, they would be a liar trying to show off. You see my points?
I used to slightly mod a BMW 3 series and it run as low as 15mpg. Yes, I am very impress and HAPPY my P 911 run that well regard MPG.
wholberg,
right
I used to (any of my favorite cars) drive gental/normal a tank, and then drive little agressive another tank to see the diff (not race). I found not that much of the diff.
Let me ask you all an question seem to be off topic but just think about it. If you are rich. If you have million of dollars in your hand. And if you have a chance to make $10k with just little efford, doing something you like to do. AND it is within your hobby. Would you do it? Or would you say "nah, I rather what TV and drink beer"?
so driving a P meaning you have not to know how your car cosume gas? What if one day your car has problem for instant leaking gas and you must not known about it too? hohoho.
To me, doesn't matter which car I am driving, I would like to know everything about it, if posible.
No harm. Only discussion. And I do feel you are making some humor here.
mstupp,
you might think diff from what I think but I think it does. In fact, I know that any car manufacture out there do think about gas consumtion when they design any car. Except, maybe Viper. Which is a muscle car and MANY people call it a meat head car.
Emac,
I remember there were so many threads asking about prepurchase research/question and someone jumped instead of giving opinion, he wrote the same phrase "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". Well, if you don't ask, how the hell do you know if you can afford it or not? I did asked and asked many questions and here I am. I think an idiot would jump in to buying car for the look and handling and such but knowing nothing about cost maintenant and other factors.
To this topic, I think knowing more and more about my car is only good. There is no bad side of it.
Yes, there is the cost of driving a P or any real sport car out there but if, I said if, there is a way of making your car drive the same way, inthe same condition, and consume less gas. Would you like ti try? Don't tell me you don't :lol: This is a little off my topic but it's related to your response.
S2TGART,
Exactly, I feel that I have to know. Even though no one response me in this board regard this topic, I still want to find out. Yes, I am inpress I can get 20mpg from this car.
It's not that I do not care. In fact I do care. Let me put it this way. If your car is running stock, or almost stock, and you are spending 10mpg while others spending 20mpg driving the same car. Do you care? Regarding gpm and also your car is having problem. Whoever say they don't care, they would be a liar trying to show off. You see my points?
I used to slightly mod a BMW 3 series and it run as low as 15mpg. Yes, I am very impress and HAPPY my P 911 run that well regard MPG.
wholberg,
right
I used to (any of my favorite cars) drive gental/normal a tank, and then drive little agressive another tank to see the diff (not race). I found not that much of the diff.
Let me ask you all an question seem to be off topic but just think about it. If you are rich. If you have million of dollars in your hand. And if you have a chance to make $10k with just little efford, doing something you like to do. AND it is within your hobby. Would you do it? Or would you say "nah, I rather what TV and drink beer"?
12-28-2005, 08:20 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thanks guys... I have no doubt that the marketing brochures would (after the gas crunch of the 70's) highlight the mileage aspect, but I'm still of the opinion that good gas mileage is just a bonus, and I'd bet the engineers (when designing the first 911s) didn't give it a second thought. Even in later years, I'd bet it was primarily for US regulations (hence that IDIOT shift light...does anyone actually shift based upon it?). I'm pretty 'in tune' with my car, and although I don't have a clue as to what the mileage numbers are, I can hear and feel when she's performing like she should. I don't abuse her, but I consistently approach redline on each shift (after she's warmed up) and tend to keep her above 3500 rpms also. That style of driving isn't condusive to optimal gas mileage...but it's still a lot better than my conversion van, so it's all relative 
Keith
'88 CE coupe
Keith
'88 CE coupe
12-28-2005, 11:02 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
The engine charactoristics of the mid 1970's 911s were designed specifically to improve fuel consumption. My '76, 2.7 Ltr has averaged 24 mpg (imperial) over the last 18 years.
PJC
PJC
12-28-2005, 11:11 AM
#20
Originally Posted by KC911
but I'm still of the opinion that good gas mileage is just a bonus, and I'd bet the engineers (when designing the first 911s) didn't give it a second thought. Even in later years, I'd bet it was primarily for US regulations (hence that IDIOT shift light...does anyone actually shift based upon it?).Keith
'88 CE coupe
'88 CE coupe
I would think that since Porsche was so heavily involved in racing in the early years, fuel consumption was a high priority to them. How much fuel a race engine is using is probably pretty important, especially in endurance racing, in order to keep the car out on the track as long as possible. Since Porsche's race car technology always trickled down to street cars, the street cars benefited from that R&D on fuel consumption. I bet the 911 motor was originally designed from Day 1 to be able to race right off the showroom floor.
The next question to ask people in the know is if there were high fuel prices in Europe in the '60's verses fuel prices in the US. Right now, Europeans are taxed a lot on fuel verses US consumers. Was that true in Europe in the '60's? If so, I bet Porsche was pretty concerned about fuel economy then.
Jay
90 964
12-28-2005, 07:18 PM
#22
having driven these cars for years I am always impressed with the "economy" of 911's. An average of 25mpg is attainable without driving in economy mode.
helps make buying premium a non issue.
helps make buying premium a non issue.
12-28-2005, 10:33 PM
#23
I just filled up and got 22 mpg. This is combination of highway and "city" driving. Shifting no later than 3500. My fuel guage was reading just above half and my odometer was reading 253 miles. This was also on 87 octane gas. I put in 93 when I just filled up. The owner's manual says to use at least 87 octane.
12-29-2005, 01:37 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
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Oh, mine is 20mpg and it is 91octan. Well, those wide fenders, wheels the previous owner put in might be the extra there. Also he took out the back seat and custom the big and heavy box there (cover whole back 1/2 of the car). I am thinking of taking it off and look for some seat cussions to put them back in, case there are more than 1 passengers.
Last edited by rnln; 12-29-2005 at 04:57 AM.
12-31-2005, 02:50 PM
#25
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Driving a sports car, gas mileage should be the least of your concerns, after all, isn't that why you have it? To break from the status quo? Something that has no purpose other than fun? Something that wants to be left in its powerband all day long? Every time you drive it you smile?
I get customers with M5's that bitch about $1800+ for tires and $4000 for oil leak repairs....................
Honestly, do you think a $90K car is going to have a $20 oil change and get new tires for $300? Sometimes I just want to smack people.
Porsches aren't supposed to be efficent, no sports/race car is, it chews tires, eats brakes, takes north of 10 quarts of oil.
Porsche has always had a vast bank of avalible technology at its fingers, so If they wanted to have a car that got super gas mileage, they would have made their own version of a GTI, that will carry a 27" TV, haul *** around a mountain, and get 30MPG doing so.
I get customers with M5's that bitch about $1800+ for tires and $4000 for oil leak repairs....................
Honestly, do you think a $90K car is going to have a $20 oil change and get new tires for $300? Sometimes I just want to smack people.
Porsches aren't supposed to be efficent, no sports/race car is, it chews tires, eats brakes, takes north of 10 quarts of oil.
Porsche has always had a vast bank of avalible technology at its fingers, so If they wanted to have a car that got super gas mileage, they would have made their own version of a GTI, that will carry a 27" TV, haul *** around a mountain, and get 30MPG doing so.
12-31-2005, 07:52 PM
#26
Fxnprsh, I don't think any of us bought our 911s with fuel economy being on our minds. It is just nice to know that these cars can get good gas mileage if one wanted to take it easy on the gas.
I agree with you that someone who own's a BMW M5 shouldn't be complaining about spending more than $300 of a whole set of tires. Though as far as oil changes go, it doesn't matter whether the car cost $15,000 or $150,000. That shouldn't have any bearing on the price of the oil change. I don't care if it's a Honda Civic or a Lamborghini, you drain the oil, change the filter, fill it back up with oil. The only price difference "should" be due to the amount of oil needed. The cost of the oil filter may be a few dollars more, but that's it. It's still a drain plug and a filter as far as the labor aspect goes. I paid $8 for the Mahle oil filter on my 911, which is probably the same price as a filter for a Honda Civic if I went to the local Honda dealer.
I don't like places that charge extra because of the type of car it is. Remember the Mercury Capri, the Mercury verson of the Mustang. It could be the same exact part you are after, but tell them it's for a Mustang, Cha-ching, it cost more.
I agree with you that someone who own's a BMW M5 shouldn't be complaining about spending more than $300 of a whole set of tires. Though as far as oil changes go, it doesn't matter whether the car cost $15,000 or $150,000. That shouldn't have any bearing on the price of the oil change. I don't care if it's a Honda Civic or a Lamborghini, you drain the oil, change the filter, fill it back up with oil. The only price difference "should" be due to the amount of oil needed. The cost of the oil filter may be a few dollars more, but that's it. It's still a drain plug and a filter as far as the labor aspect goes. I paid $8 for the Mahle oil filter on my 911, which is probably the same price as a filter for a Honda Civic if I went to the local Honda dealer.
I don't like places that charge extra because of the type of car it is. Remember the Mercury Capri, the Mercury verson of the Mustang. It could be the same exact part you are after, but tell them it's for a Mustang, Cha-ching, it cost more.
12-31-2005, 09:10 PM
#27
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"Porsches aren't supposed to be efficent, no sports/race car is."
fxnprsch, I completely disagree! So, if you aren't jesting for entertainment...
One of the reasons I was drawn to Porsches is their "scientific" attention to efficiency in all regards. Racing is/was at the Porsche's heart, for proof of new modes of efficiency), quality, joy & publicity. Having owned a number of Porsches for over 20 yrs, I remain convinced that my reasoning has indeed been in sync w/ Porsche's.
At the core is the efficiency of the air cooled motor that The Old Man derived in WWI as an aircraft engine (Austro-Hungary didn't have much of an AF at the time). Lightweight, aerodynamics, high specific output, power & weight transfer, low fuel consumption are all part of the superior, successfull high performance engine solution - independent of application, but especially important in sports / GTs. I can't think of ever reading an article by & about engine design where the chief engineer didn't pay attention to fuel consumption (however, I don't follow drag racing closely). As long as race cars run out of gas on the track & fuel capacity is a rule, efficient fuel use is part of the winning equation. I believe that in Porsche's first splash at LeMans (a production-based racer w/ 1100cc motor in '51 or '52) - they won the "Index of Performance & Thermal Efficiency" & were quite proud of it!
Production Porsches (& numerous of their racing cars) aren't economy cars, but they've always been economical cars. A reading of many direct sources over the company's history attests to their view that performance AND efficiency have long been deeply inter-related design & development values. That expertise is one reason they get alot of engineering services contract work. Anyway, I highly recommend the direct sources for your enjoyment - Ferdinand's Biography, Ferry's autobiography, Ludvigsen's EWE set is great too, to gain insight to the longstanding, underlying philosophy of efficiency at Porsche. & HNY!
fxnprsch, I completely disagree! So, if you aren't jesting for entertainment...
One of the reasons I was drawn to Porsches is their "scientific" attention to efficiency in all regards. Racing is/was at the Porsche's heart, for proof of new modes of efficiency), quality, joy & publicity. Having owned a number of Porsches for over 20 yrs, I remain convinced that my reasoning has indeed been in sync w/ Porsche's.
At the core is the efficiency of the air cooled motor that The Old Man derived in WWI as an aircraft engine (Austro-Hungary didn't have much of an AF at the time). Lightweight, aerodynamics, high specific output, power & weight transfer, low fuel consumption are all part of the superior, successfull high performance engine solution - independent of application, but especially important in sports / GTs. I can't think of ever reading an article by & about engine design where the chief engineer didn't pay attention to fuel consumption (however, I don't follow drag racing closely). As long as race cars run out of gas on the track & fuel capacity is a rule, efficient fuel use is part of the winning equation. I believe that in Porsche's first splash at LeMans (a production-based racer w/ 1100cc motor in '51 or '52) - they won the "Index of Performance & Thermal Efficiency" & were quite proud of it!
Production Porsches (& numerous of their racing cars) aren't economy cars, but they've always been economical cars. A reading of many direct sources over the company's history attests to their view that performance AND efficiency have long been deeply inter-related design & development values. That expertise is one reason they get alot of engineering services contract work. Anyway, I highly recommend the direct sources for your enjoyment - Ferdinand's Biography, Ferry's autobiography, Ludvigsen's EWE set is great too, to gain insight to the longstanding, underlying philosophy of efficiency at Porsche. & HNY!
12-31-2005, 10:51 PM
#28
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I used to build and service Porsche race cars...........you have no idea the amount of money, fluid, rubber, and brakes that they go through in an outting, ask the club racers about tires and brakes
and as far as oil changes, when you take your turbo to the dealer, and pay a factory trained tech such as myself to overlook your entire car, pay for my time, 11 quarts of oil at $7 a quart and a filter, you can see where it adds up.
Hondas have a guy who they pay $8 an hour, to change $8 worth of oil and filter
any loon who considers gas mileage when purchasing a Porsche, doesn't deserve to drive it, as thats not what the experiance is about.
and as far as oil changes, when you take your turbo to the dealer, and pay a factory trained tech such as myself to overlook your entire car, pay for my time, 11 quarts of oil at $7 a quart and a filter, you can see where it adds up.
Hondas have a guy who they pay $8 an hour, to change $8 worth of oil and filter
any loon who considers gas mileage when purchasing a Porsche, doesn't deserve to drive it, as thats not what the experiance is about.
12-31-2005, 11:23 PM
#29
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thanks, fixn, for reminding me I have no idea what maintainence on & racing Porsches is all about, & that it is expensive (all the laps since '74, when I drove Summit Point for the first time - amazing powers of insight you have!). Also, I now know that I am a loon & that I don't deserve my 356s & 911 (going to have to return my "Best Outlaw" award & cancel the upcoming DEs), & that I am missing the True Experience (of which I did not realize that you are the Keeper, sorry!). All that, just in time for the New Year, too! Next time I see Norbert Singer & Hurley Haywood, I'll clue them in for you...
HNY!
HNY!
01-01-2006, 04:42 AM
#30
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The fact is that I, and many people, doesn't base on the GM to purchase our belove car. But if it is good in GM, we are happy to save some gas money. Who wouldn't?
Funny thing is that someone sitting here to decide who would deserve to drive a porshce and who doesn't deserve it, while Porsche doesn't decide it hoho :lol: What makes some individual to decide that? Nothing.
In fact, if porsche, nowaday, is purely on race, then why convertible? Why automatic and tiptronic. I feel sorry for those who stick their head in the engine bay too much and forget about the real world out there. These people should accept that they like a particular car, for a particular purpose, and there are other people might like the same car for diff purpose. If they can't accept that, go buy a million dollars car so that they can be the one only driving it, if they can afford it.
umm.. another thought. If these people are somewhere else, welcome to California and watch thoughsand of people include girls, old ladies.. are driving automatic/convertible 911 at 30 miles per hour all day long so they can get real pissed and bang themselves in the head :lol:
Funny thing is that someone sitting here to decide who would deserve to drive a porshce and who doesn't deserve it, while Porsche doesn't decide it hoho :lol: What makes some individual to decide that? Nothing.
In fact, if porsche, nowaday, is purely on race, then why convertible? Why automatic and tiptronic. I feel sorry for those who stick their head in the engine bay too much and forget about the real world out there. These people should accept that they like a particular car, for a particular purpose, and there are other people might like the same car for diff purpose. If they can't accept that, go buy a million dollars car so that they can be the one only driving it, if they can afford it.
umm.. another thought. If these people are somewhere else, welcome to California and watch thoughsand of people include girls, old ladies.. are driving automatic/convertible 911 at 30 miles per hour all day long so they can get real pissed and bang themselves in the head :lol: