sb944

Hi there,

I have owned a 944 for some time and am actually considering moving up to a 911 sometime soon. I like the car I have and have considered getting a newer model of that like the S2 or Turbo S (long wait to find one of these in Australia), but I figured I should change even more as it would seem like I'm getting mostly the same car with a couple of more options and more power.

So I actually went out and test drove a couple of mid to late 80's 911's, and I'm wondering if I like the feel of these cars at all. Everybody who has one or I've talked to about 911's say that once you work out the handling it's better handling than the 944 body, but I think differently at the moment.

I'm posting this so people can inform me of how to drive this car differently so it does handle better. I'm obviously in the wrong habit and I want to know the key thing(s) I should do differently when driving a 911. Also is it really worth saving up more money and moving into the 964 category, do these cars handle any differently?

Thanks,

Sam.

ps. apart from my handling problems I really do like the cars, and the acceleration at any speed is great.

old_skul

Two completely different worlds, IMHO.

I mean...the cars handle totally differently, feel totally different, accelerate different, sound different, look different...seriously, the 924/944/928 series was Porsche 3.0 from what I can see.

The 911 accelerates best in the middle-to-top of its rpm range. It handles best by braking ridiculously hard into a corner, followed by intentionally squatting the car as you corner with throttle. Lift during a corner and the back end will rotate out.

The 944, with its 50/50 weight distribution, is a hell of a lot more forgiving. Easier to drive. And the accel curve is a lot flatter. They're great cars, don't get me wrong - but not terribly comparable. It all comes down to your preference, basically.

sb944

Thanks for the reply.

Do you mean by squatting that you pump the accelerator slightly to make the car turn quicker? Or does squat mean something completely different.

I think that's what threw me about the 911. It just flys out somtimes when I leave a corner and almost comes to a stop, which is probably because I'm used to the 944 forgiving my bad driving when I let the throttle go mid corner occasionally.

Thanks again for the post.

Sam.

nostatic

You need to drive some more 911's. 3.2L cars feel different from 964's which feel different from 993's. And even within the same year, different cars will feel different based on their state of repair and wear.

I drove my first 951 today, and while it wasn't bad, it didn't send me like the feel of a good 911. And it didn't feel like it had the go-power of a 964 or 993...or a 3.2 up in the revs for that matter. The rear weight bias takes some getting used to, but there is nothing like the whine of the flat 6.

Cookie Porsche

Sam, (sorry...this one's long)

This is a rather dizzy subject, and you'll have some subjective answers on this one!

Bottom line is that most people can't drive a Formula 1 car first time out. If you manage to get it rolling, you'd stutter, splutter and spin it in the first corner! Now - does that mean a F1 car handles badly?

A 911 is very sensitive to driver input. It reacts very positively to throttle, steering and surface conditions, hence it's reputation for 'difficult' behaviour.

In the right hands, set up correctly and with some (lots) practice the 911 is unrivalled in most conditions.

Unlike the fallacy that they bite you because of the reward design, the 911 actually become a logic driver’s car. The rear-mounted engine allows for ultimate traction, you can power steer the car through corners and braking is balanced.

Some (ignorant) people will argue that an early 911 is impossible, especially in slippery conditions, but I'll argue that a car of similar vintage would be far behind any day.

The handling of the 911 is like flying a jet fighter of a carrier (or so I'm told ), most will never master it, it takes time to learn and it will always remain challenging!

A comment was noted about the power delivery. Actually the 911 trademark is torque at low rpm - more important for all-round driving than peak power.

To learn the 'trick' buy 1x 911, 4x good tires and Vic Elfords book (911 performance driving). You'll be forever young.

Last note. I race a 911 and have competed for some time in proper races, track days, DE's, AutoX's and fun days. On any track or autoX a 911 will always out-perform its rivals 95% of the time in comparative classes. That goes for Porsches cousins and other 'sporty' marques.

Who'd say I'm a 911 guy ?

Hope you enjoy your weekend, Tom.

EricY

I owned an early '85 944 for about 5 years before getting my first 911 a few months ago - an '87 Targa.

The 911 handling is very different from the 944. At first, I *almost* didn't like the way it handled, but the power, sound, and response of the engine had me hooked. The handling of the 3.2L seemed at first unstable and squirrelly. Now that I'm used to the handling, it seems a lot more stable. I think the thing that threw me off initially was that the front end feels like it lifts a lot during acceleration which, to me, meant less traction. Actually it's quite the opposite since the backend is firmly planted.

In the 944 I got into trouble several times; turns that turned out to be tighter than expected, deer jumping out in front of me, etc. I never really felt out of control in that car. In the 944 car if you got into trouble you could just let off the gas, slam the brakes, and steer. In the 911 I don't get that same feeling.

With all that said, though, I can flat out go faster in my 911 than I ever could in the 944. Not a fair comparison HP-wise, but maybe in cornering. Granted the 911's tires are slightly wider in the rear.

A few years from now I might just get a 951 to play around with b/c the 944 series are definitely fun cars and I'd like to drive one fully upgraded (chipped, MAF'd, etc.)

But I don't think I'll ever get rid of my 911 - it's just too much damned fun.

MelissaM

sb944,

Let me (a very novice autox/DE driver) try to answer this. In a word, yes, if you put your foot on the gas during the turn, the car will "squat" into the turn. I practiced this at an autocross school -- when I felt the back end start to slide out, I pressed down on the accelerator and felt the car "hunker down" under me and stick into the turn. Cool feeling!

Here's the thing -- it takes a bit to master it. Feeling the back end get light, knowing how much throttle to apply, etc. Lots of fun.

Not only that, but you can use this to your advantage. Let's say you want to make a sharp turn quickly. If you have too much speed, the car will understeer. Many people will brake or lift a bit off the throttle, and let the back end slide around a bit -- thus making the turn sharper. Again, this takes a bit the master -- the timing, the finesse, etc.

Why does it work like this? Well, I'm sure others can explain much better than me, but I'll give it a try. You know how when you brake (any car), the nose tends to drop down? That's the weight shift towards the front of the car. This lightens the back of the car. If you're going around a turn and that back end is light, it doesn't have as much traction back there. With the 911's engine in the back, there's still mass back there. So, it becomes like throwing a hammer. Less traction in the back than in the front, but a bunch of mass in the back, so you get spin city!

Believe me, I learned the hard way (on a track during a DE) that "lifting" off the throttle can mean just barely easing your foot off the gas pedal in the middle of a turn. Oops. Fortunately I merely spun into the infield and got my car VERY dusty. No contact, and I learned a valuable lesson. Guess that's why they call it Driver's Education.

Incidentally, with your 944, the engine's in the front, and the tranny's in the back, so the weight is very evenly distributed. Makes for a more forgiving car. (But you probably already knew that!)

Hope this helps!

-- Melissa

Chris Bennet

I have an '86 911 and an '89 944S2 and I've tracked both. The S2 is far easier to drive and probably would be faster than the 911 if it had the same suspension mods. (The 944 is totally stock.) The 911 is simply a blast to drive though. Driving a 911 is just much more rewarding.
Chris

ScottH

Hey Sam,

I've had my '87 Targa for almost two years now. I all but HATED it when I first drove it as a replacement for a '99 Z3 2.8 I decided to give up, even though I liked it. I was expecting the 911 to be very different, but I thought I'd at least LIKE it. Knowing this is a car ya don't get to know right from the start, I bought it! I knew the owner (who bought it new) and it was well taken care of, so I went for it.

I must say that if you plan on only driving on weekends you may never feel comfortable in one, because they need to be driven. I like mine a lot now, though I miss having all my electrical bits work when I want them to, rather than when they feel like it.

Long sotry short...don't let the forst drive turn you away. Also, brand new tires made a world of difference for me even though I don't do any track work.

Enjoy!

Scott

Turbo Dave

Another difference is the line you take with a 911. You have to do your stopping in a straight line, and accelerate through the corner to get the car to work. So, you will probably turn in way later with the 911 than you would with the 944.

I also have a Miata, which is kinda like an under-powered 944, and I turn in sooner, letting the handling balance smoothly carry the car through the turn. In the 911, I've been amazed at how deep into the corner you drive (as tought by several hot-shoe 911 drivers at a couple recent DE events). If we were following a BMW (for example) into a left-hand corner, I would watch them turn in while we were still heading straight for the weeds, at the outside of the track. Then, we would cut in sharply, let the car just begin to rotate under us, and start leaning on the throttle. Much slower in, but really fast out. That BMW would pull a car length or two going in, and we'ld eat it alive coming out.

Now, this was done much better by my instructors...

Stephen Masraum

Yeah, but you made it sound really good!!
Made me sit here and think, "I could do that!" NOT, heheh