richard glickel

Since I have to get the blue paint from the Watkins Glen Armco off my car anyway, I'm going with a C2 Turbo look for my car this winter. I was talking with Brad from BW Motorsports in Illinois today about acquiring the necessary body parts (steel flares, fiberglass front, side rockers and rear bumper), lighting, 17" C2 turbo wheels, etc.

I enjoyed discussing my planned upgrades with Brad, he had some helpful suggestions and think I'll do business with him. Anyone out there have any past dealings with BW?

Thanks.

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

Bill Verburg

I've got their bumpers f/r. Great products and great folks to deal w/. Brad gets an A+ in customer relations

Geoffrey

Richard,

I have BW's 930S front valence and thought that the quality was much better than others I've seen. Additionally, Brad is excellent to deal with. Just remember that any fiberglass panels you get will need modification to fit as well as the factory pieces and prep time to get them perfect.

richard glickel

Bill & Geoff,

Well, cudos for BW from two knowledgeable guys that I admire and respect is high praise indeed!

Thanks guys. This is gonna be fun!

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6 (future C2 turbo clone)

Geoffrey

"'87 Carrera-3.6 (future C2 turbo clone)"

Does this mean that you are going to get one of Rick's 500hp turbo engines too?

richard glickel.

Geoff,

Think I'd best learn to handle the 300 h.p. n.a. engine first. No?

Richard

Geoffrey

Now why would that be any fun?

BTW, One of our club racers wrecked his cup car at Lime Rock and he was on Michelens as well. Another CVR guy wrecked is 91 C2Turbo and was on Michelins. One of our instructors wrecked his 88 Carrera and was on Michelins. All three had complained about them being slippery or unpredictable prior to their accidents.

I'll be interested in hearing what the Michelin tech has to say in Feb.

Schuey

do they have a website?

Todd

I have ordered from BW motorsports as well. Excellent service in every category..

richard glickel.

Schuey,

No web site yet. But, Brad at BW tells me one is planned and coming in the near future. They advertise in each edition of Excellence magazine.

Geoff,

You have confirmed, precisely, my experience with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires. One "excuse" I've read is that these (Michelin Cup) tires take a "longer time" to heat up. But, when I went off at the Glen, it was at the beginning (2nd) lap of my fourth run of the day, so I'm thinking, even though the ambient temperature was in the low 50's - upper 40's, the tires should be good to go at that point.

Since this was the second time in as many DE events that I locked up my front brakes with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires (and NEVER having done so with other tire brands, e.g., Bridgestone SO2 & SO3's and Goodrich R-1's), I am done blaming myself and, needless to say, will not be using Michelin Cup tires on the track any time in the foreseeable future. I cannot recommend these tires to anyone else, and I will say to anyone who has these tire and is currently using them to be very careful when starting out.

The Michelin Cup tires are probably real good after they heat up on a hot track. But, here in the northeast in Spring and Fall, especially for someone who likes to get going early into their run, these tires can present a problem.

In the immortal words of Elmer Fudd, "Be wery, wery, careful".

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6 (morphing into C2 Turbo clone).

James Achard

In regard to the Michelin Cup tires, I have a few points to make.
1. R compound tires show a much greater difference when cold since they are so grippy when hot. One gets used to there adhesion when there hot and forgets to adjust ones driving style when its cold.
2. I have seen quite a few folks running these way to high in regard to pressure. I run34 hot with no problems what so ever(2600lb car).
3. Locking up your brakes with these tires is alot easier since they are a very light tire. As with any competition tire, you can't just slam into the brakes or you will get brake spiking which will cause the wheel to stop whereas a street tire(read heavy) has more mass so its less suseptible to this.

In closing, I think many folks jumped on these tires since they got such good reviews but one needs to realize that they really are a competition tire, not a street tire and therefore treat them as such.

Cheers, James

richard glickel.

Hi James,

Tire pressure was not an issue. We started low and ran at recommended factory pressures "hot".

This certainly isn't the first "competition" or R compound tire I have run on my car and I'm sure the same is true for Geoff's friends.

The first time this happened I really jumped on the brakes at Lime Rock while attempting to trail brake into the first turn and, as you can imagine, disappeared in a cloud of white smoke into the run-off at the end of the straight. Flat spotted the tires down to the steel cord!

However, at Watkins Glen, after my first experience with the Michelin Cup tire, I was extremely conservative in my approach. If I had been cookin' as I set up for the off-camber left-hand turn at the Glen the damage to my car would have been horrible (I would have likely totaled the car). As it was, I escaped with a broken front wheel and some blue paint on the right front fender and was able to limp home. IMHO, the tires just SUCK.

That said, I'm glad you like 'em (the Michelin's that is).

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

James Achard

Richard, I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I'm glad you're OK though. What other R compound tires have you run? Hoosiers? Yoko's? These tires are alot more like a Hoosier than they are a Yokohama. What sizes were you running? What kind of laptimes are you turning at Limerock, Watkins Glen? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just curious since I'm prepping my car for Club Racing next year.

Cheers, James

Geoffrey

My post was not to imply that the Michelins are terrible tires. I've yet to try them personally so I can't comment. I only offered the observation of a few of my friends that have tried them. My guess is that they require a different driving technique until you learn the tires. I've been running Yokohama 032R Advan tires and most recently the Hoosiers. I'd have to say that the Hoosiers come up to temperature and are very progressive and I like that. They Yokos are similar but offer less grip. Since I drive my car to the track and don't have room in it for a second set of tires, I'm pretty much stuck with a groved R compoind tire like the Yokos. Unfortunately, I've had a set on order from Tire Rack since June and can't seem to get them. The Michelins are't available in my sizes 315/35/17 and 245/40/17 otherwise I'd probably try them.

I did ride in one of my friend's car on Michelins at Lime Rock in September before he wrecked it and thought it squirmed around quite a bit, but also thought it might not have had a stiff enough front sway bar in it.

lateapex911

I would agree that proper tire heating makes a HUGE difference. While i haven't run on Bibbendendums finest, I have run the Hoosier DOT race rubber on my race car, and man, they suck cold! It can take a few laps at a place like the Glen that has long straights to really get the carcass an the tread up to temp. In racing, we don't get a chance to warm them gradually, so they must be vigorously heated on the formation lap. Even then, my videos show a lot of fast hand adjustments in the first race lap or two.
Good advice earlier..."Be wery wery careful" indeed!

By the way...what "Rick" were ou guys referring to earlier?