3.6 Conversions
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 316
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From: Philly, Pa
3.6 Conversions
I just completed conversion from a 3.2 to a 3.6 (964 engine). The car is a 1977 euro sunroof delete wide body. Car weighs in at 2550 now with the 3.6. Had it to my first track event since the 3.6 transplant 2 weeks ago at the Glen and WoW! It was money well spent. Would like to hear from others who have a 3.6 in an earlier vintage car. What issues have you run into? What other modificatins or changes have you made as result of the increased torque?
RL Technical Advisor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,870
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From: Portland Oregon
Hi Brian:
We have done quite a number of these conversions over the years and I might be able to answer your questions,.....
Typically, several other parts of the car require some upgrades when a 3.6 (or 3.8) is installed.
Suspensions get upgraded, twin front oil coolers are fitted, and larger brakes are installed when these cars receive that kind of power. In some cases, close-ratio gears are installed and an LSD is mandatory to control the otherwise excessive wheelspin.
Properly done and as an integrated, complete package, these transplants make the final result VERY satisfying to drive,....
We have done quite a number of these conversions over the years and I might be able to answer your questions,.....
Typically, several other parts of the car require some upgrades when a 3.6 (or 3.8) is installed.
Suspensions get upgraded, twin front oil coolers are fitted, and larger brakes are installed when these cars receive that kind of power. In some cases, close-ratio gears are installed and an LSD is mandatory to control the otherwise excessive wheelspin.
Properly done and as an integrated, complete package, these transplants make the final result VERY satisfying to drive,....
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Los Angeles
I've been driving mine for over five years, now. It's been as reliable as a Camry, and took its class and the overall win in the Touring division of last year's Open Track Challenge out here on the west coast.
Like Steve says, oil cooling is probably the biggest issue people have to wrestle with. Everything else has to do with making your car as fast as your motor.
Like Steve says, oil cooling is probably the biggest issue people have to wrestle with. Everything else has to do with making your car as fast as your motor.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 316
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From: Philly, Pa
I did the brake upgrade a while back when it got the 3.2 put in. Added a front mounted oil cooler in series with the fender mounted carrera cooler but it still ran a little on the hot side at the glen getting up to 240+ after a few fast laps. On the street however it runs between 190 and 210. I am working on the cooling issues as I believe the problem was caused by poor airflow through the coolers so have created sheetmetal ducting to direct air through both coolers and have also wrapped the oil lines that pass very close to the headers in thermal blankets to lessen the amount of heat being transfered into the oil system from the headers. (they almost touch the headers) My suspension is surely my weakest link. Have 19 and 26 torsion bars and stock sway bars . The struts while fairly new are Boge's. Car originally had Koni's but when the 3.2 went in the donor car was a 86 Carrera Targa I owned that was run over by an SUV from the rear (bent the tail end so that it touched the ground but the engine did survive) and all the suspension on this car was brand new so I switched it out. The Konis where beat and leaking. I have heard that Boge's are not great for track driving. Despite the releativily stock suspension the car turned some great laps at the Glen but I did feel that to take total advantage of the additional torque some stiffining would be in order.
RL Technical Advisor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,870
Likes: 75
From: Portland Oregon
I would suggest that you install 22mm/29mm torsion bars, Bilstein HD's inserts in front and Sport shocks in back. That makes a nice compromise street/track suspension. Along with Turbo tie-rods, some Smart Racing adjustable swaybars, and perhaps poly-bronze bushings, you'll be done.
Your stock Carrera brakes won't hold up for driving at the Glen so budget appropriately for a good track-capable brake kit.
Your stock Carrera brakes won't hold up for driving at the Glen so budget appropriately for a good track-capable brake kit.
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Did my first 964 swap in '94, wanted more so I swapped the 964 for a 993RS in '03, no real issues to speak of.
Car did need
large front mount cooler
car didn't need but got anyway
big brakes, 1st set was 964 calipers on 930 rotors a very adequate setup, but second set was 993RS all around
SC/RS trans
235/45 on 8s & 275/40 on 9.5s x17
Car did need
large front mount cooler
car didn't need but got anyway
big brakes, 1st set was 964 calipers on 930 rotors a very adequate setup, but second set was 993RS all around
SC/RS trans
235/45 on 8s & 275/40 on 9.5s x17
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From: NorCal
Bill: A little OT here but did you have any fit issues with the tires? I currently have 8x17 and 9.5x17 Fikse, and I've been thinking of going the 245 /275 route for track tires (currently 225 and 255).
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Bill: A little OT here but did you have any fit issues with the tires?
I do not know what o/s Fikse may have given you, If you can tell me I can offer an opinion. I do know of a couple of cars w/ Fikse 8 & 10 w/ 245/275 but it seems to me that at least some of them needed to run asymetrical spacers. But I don't clearly remember the details.
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From: NorCal
Thanks for the info. Not sure on the o/s of the Fikse I have, but having to massage the fenders beyond rolling the lips (which is already done) is a little more than I was planning on doing. Since it's only a DE car, I guess I'll stick with the 225/255 combo.
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what was the adv. of cutting the lips rather than rolling?
I first cut the lips down when I got the car w/ 7 & 8 x15 205 & 225/ both 50 series.
The car was lowered to the point that the toes of my shoes wouldn't fit under the lip spoiler.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 316
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From: Philly, Pa
Since my car is a turbo body this has not been an issue for me. But for the record I have 8X17 front with 245x40x17 and 9.5X17 rear with 275X35x17. They fill out the turbo body very well. Car is lowered so I do not think I can go wider without rolling the fenders.
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From: Los Angeles
Hey Jack
Tony Garcia here.... (hope you get back out on WSIR with us soon!)
We're doing a 3.6L 993 engine conversion in to a '75 911 "race car in the making".
We purchased the big front Mocal oil cooler (approx 22"x6") with the front mount glass valance with the cutout for the oil cooler.
Do you think this oil cooler will be big enough for a summer day at WSIR on this car? I've got a Carrera oil cooler with the fan that I can run in series if necessary, but I was hoping to install the Carrera oil cooler/fan on my SC :-)
PS> It's a stock 993 Vario Ram engine with the Vario Ram removed, PMO 50mm carbs, big cams, headers/exhaust.
Thoughts?
TonyG
Tony Garcia here.... (hope you get back out on WSIR with us soon!)
We're doing a 3.6L 993 engine conversion in to a '75 911 "race car in the making".
We purchased the big front Mocal oil cooler (approx 22"x6") with the front mount glass valance with the cutout for the oil cooler.
Do you think this oil cooler will be big enough for a summer day at WSIR on this car? I've got a Carrera oil cooler with the fan that I can run in series if necessary, but I was hoping to install the Carrera oil cooler/fan on my SC :-)
PS> It's a stock 993 Vario Ram engine with the Vario Ram removed, PMO 50mm carbs, big cams, headers/exhaust.
Thoughts?
TonyG