Looking to buy a 1977 911S. Advice?
04-27-2005, 03:31 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Looking to buy a 1977 911S. Advice?
I've got a great deal on a 1977 911S that needs a little bit of work, can you guys help me out with some advice about it?
It has a spot or two of rust, but nothing I saw that was worrisome.
It needs a new transmission, or transmission work. Second gear isn't there or doesn't engage.
It's leaking oil from a few places, but it seems to run pretty well.
What should I watch out for? What should I look for? What are the advantages of this year? Will I be able to make a daily driver out of it? How's it going to compare to my 951?
Thanks for all your help!
It has a spot or two of rust, but nothing I saw that was worrisome.
It needs a new transmission, or transmission work. Second gear isn't there or doesn't engage.
It's leaking oil from a few places, but it seems to run pretty well.
What should I watch out for? What should I look for? What are the advantages of this year? Will I be able to make a daily driver out of it? How's it going to compare to my 951?
Thanks for all your help!
04-27-2005, 06:22 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I didn't buy it yet, but that's what I've found out from the research I've got. I could get it for as low as $2.5k-3k. Would it be worth buying, getting it cleaned up and fixed, maybe to sell it for a profit?
What do these usually go for? And how much is a 3.0 I could drop into it?
What do these usually go for? And how much is a 3.0 I could drop into it?
04-27-2005, 10:15 PM
#4
The 1974 to 1977 911's came from the factory with an engine that was not very robust. Emmissions issues got the best of the motor...and many had head stud issues due to the emmissions equipment.
The rest of the car is pretty solid (brakes, transmission, body, trim, electrics, etc), though pre-1977 cars are not fully galvanized and rust issues can be a problem.
Even if you buy the car for $2500 to $3000 and you find out that the motor needs work, you could potentially spend another $5000 to $8,000 on motor work (or upgrading to a 3.0) and still have a car worth only $5000 to $7000. Then, you still have transmission issues or other cosmetic issues that require thousands more, pushing you more into the hole. Rebuilding the 915 transmission can cost $1000 to $2000 depending on what needs to be done. A quality paint job worthy of a Porsche can cost $5000 in a hurry. Trim items are expensive and restoring an interior can run in the thousands. After all that is done, you're still left with a 2.7 that might only be worth $5000 to $7000...
A 2.7 911 with a rebuilt motor and in nice condition can be a fantastic 911 (and even be had for a bargin in the Porsche world). But, buy a dog and it will cost you a bundle that you will be upside down in value in no time. I feel that these abused or neglected older 911's are best left to the serious DIY guys that have the expectation that they will not get their time or dollars back out of the cars and do it for the fun of it.
Spend $7000 or $8000 on a nice 2.7 or $10-11,000 on a perfect 2.7 and you'll be miles ahead in the long run. Or, you could buy a running dog for that $2500-$3000 and just run the crap out of it and dump it for cheap when it blows up or you get tired of it and only loose a thousand or so.
You can make it a daily driver, though I would bet your 951 is much more civilized in traffic and I would also bet that the A/C and ventilation is far superior to what was available in 1977 (though some under dash A/C systems can be effective).
Good luck in your decision,
Jay
90 964
The rest of the car is pretty solid (brakes, transmission, body, trim, electrics, etc), though pre-1977 cars are not fully galvanized and rust issues can be a problem.
Even if you buy the car for $2500 to $3000 and you find out that the motor needs work, you could potentially spend another $5000 to $8,000 on motor work (or upgrading to a 3.0) and still have a car worth only $5000 to $7000. Then, you still have transmission issues or other cosmetic issues that require thousands more, pushing you more into the hole. Rebuilding the 915 transmission can cost $1000 to $2000 depending on what needs to be done. A quality paint job worthy of a Porsche can cost $5000 in a hurry. Trim items are expensive and restoring an interior can run in the thousands. After all that is done, you're still left with a 2.7 that might only be worth $5000 to $7000...
A 2.7 911 with a rebuilt motor and in nice condition can be a fantastic 911 (and even be had for a bargin in the Porsche world). But, buy a dog and it will cost you a bundle that you will be upside down in value in no time. I feel that these abused or neglected older 911's are best left to the serious DIY guys that have the expectation that they will not get their time or dollars back out of the cars and do it for the fun of it.
Spend $7000 or $8000 on a nice 2.7 or $10-11,000 on a perfect 2.7 and you'll be miles ahead in the long run. Or, you could buy a running dog for that $2500-$3000 and just run the crap out of it and dump it for cheap when it blows up or you get tired of it and only loose a thousand or so.
You can make it a daily driver, though I would bet your 951 is much more civilized in traffic and I would also bet that the A/C and ventilation is far superior to what was available in 1977 (though some under dash A/C systems can be effective).
Good luck in your decision,
Jay
90 964
04-27-2005, 10:20 PM
#5
IF you can buy a running 2.7L 911 in decent cosmetic shape for $2,500 I'd do it for the parts alone. You can run it until it drops and then either repair the engine; replace with a bigger later engine, or use the engine as a base to build 2.8 RS type motor -- it costs $$ to do that of course.
04-27-2005, 10:24 PM
#6
Race Car
I'll be blunt.
Least desirable year for all 911's, ever? Possibly the 1977.
911's in general are poor candidates for fixing up and selling for a profit, since it could easily set you back 20K to build a car that's worth 10K out on the market. The 74-77 cars are particularly poor candidates for flipping, since the ceiling on their sale price is going to be lower than most other years of the model -- and it'll cost you just as much to fix up the 1977. (Possibly more.) Especially if it's a California spec car, be very careful.
Least desirable year for all 911's, ever? Possibly the 1977.
911's in general are poor candidates for fixing up and selling for a profit, since it could easily set you back 20K to build a car that's worth 10K out on the market. The 74-77 cars are particularly poor candidates for flipping, since the ceiling on their sale price is going to be lower than most other years of the model -- and it'll cost you just as much to fix up the 1977. (Possibly more.) Especially if it's a California spec car, be very careful.
04-28-2005, 07:31 PM
#7
Racer
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Not worth fixing up. No way.
Esp. if you pay $3K for it.
Nice ones with rebuilt engines and rebuilt trannys, great cosmetic condition, etc. go for $9K or less. There just isn't much room for profit in a '77 because 1) they cost the same to fix up as the 911s from the other years, but 2) when your done, you have a car that is greatly limited in value.
Esp. if you pay $3K for it.
Nice ones with rebuilt engines and rebuilt trannys, great cosmetic condition, etc. go for $9K or less. There just isn't much room for profit in a '77 because 1) they cost the same to fix up as the 911s from the other years, but 2) when your done, you have a car that is greatly limited in value.
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04-29-2005, 10:19 PM
#9
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Sometimes I think that people are overly cautious when it comes to the 2.7l cars. Reading some of the posts here, it would seem that the 2.7l cars are absolute ticking timebombs, and exist only to destroy their owner's lives.
I personally think that the 2.7l cars are the best bargains in the 911 world. The poor reputation they have has pushed their prices down considerably below the cost of an SC, which they are nearly identical to (minus the engine and fender flares).
Incidentally, the '77 911 is by no means the worst year for the 911 - the only real differences between the '77 and the other 2.7l cars are good things - galvanizing, updated valve seals (that don't leak in 30k miles) dilavar head studs from the factory, etc.
Lastly, once you replace the fan, exhaust and add an oil cooler, they make good running cars.
Just my personal opinion,
Damion
'77 911S
PS: I've also owned an '86 951, and the 911 (while not as fast) is much more fun to drive.
I personally think that the 2.7l cars are the best bargains in the 911 world. The poor reputation they have has pushed their prices down considerably below the cost of an SC, which they are nearly identical to (minus the engine and fender flares).
Incidentally, the '77 911 is by no means the worst year for the 911 - the only real differences between the '77 and the other 2.7l cars are good things - galvanizing, updated valve seals (that don't leak in 30k miles) dilavar head studs from the factory, etc.
Lastly, once you replace the fan, exhaust and add an oil cooler, they make good running cars.
Just my personal opinion,
Damion
'77 911S
PS: I've also owned an '86 951, and the 911 (while not as fast) is much more fun to drive.
04-30-2005, 01:41 AM
#11
Racer
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I also agree they CAN be good bargains.
If you buy one that some other sucker has spent $20K on to properly rebuild the engine, change the entire exhaust, add an oil cooler, and sort out all the other problems, etc. etc. etc.
Then you buy THAT car for $8K or $9K. Because that's about top dollar for a mid year car.
If you buy one that some other sucker has spent $20K on to properly rebuild the engine, change the entire exhaust, add an oil cooler, and sort out all the other problems, etc. etc. etc.
Then you buy THAT car for $8K or $9K. Because that's about top dollar for a mid year car.
04-30-2005, 02:08 AM
#12
The Ancient One
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Just over 5 years ago, I had an accident in my 74 that totaled it. Not my fault, and luckily only 'minor' injuries.
Anyway, I paid 5K for the car and knew nothing of getting a PPI. I dumped about $7K into the car fixing transmission, clutch, carrera tensioners, Pertronix igniton, brakes, interior repairs, etc. etc.
My insurance Co. tried to give me $8.5-$9K. I laughed, showed them receipts and comparable ads and the next offer was $12,500.
I LOVED that car. I wouldn't have cared if I had dumped $15K into it (my wife certainly would have!).
It was a blast to drive and it was PLENTY fast for a first 911.
BTW, 74 models had no thermal reactors, no smog pumps, and no CA specific smog components whatsoever. All US bound 911's were the same in 74, aside from the S, T, & Carrera differences.
75 is when CA got all smog conscience and placed emmissions requirements on auto makers that were different than other states.
+++
Anyway, I paid 5K for the car and knew nothing of getting a PPI. I dumped about $7K into the car fixing transmission, clutch, carrera tensioners, Pertronix igniton, brakes, interior repairs, etc. etc.
My insurance Co. tried to give me $8.5-$9K. I laughed, showed them receipts and comparable ads and the next offer was $12,500.
I LOVED that car. I wouldn't have cared if I had dumped $15K into it (my wife certainly would have!).
It was a blast to drive and it was PLENTY fast for a first 911.
BTW, 74 models had no thermal reactors, no smog pumps, and no CA specific smog components whatsoever. All US bound 911's were the same in 74, aside from the S, T, & Carrera differences.
75 is when CA got all smog conscience and placed emmissions requirements on auto makers that were different than other states.
+++
05-01-2005, 03:41 PM
#13
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I think everybody is pretty accurate in their opinions here. One other thing you might consider, though, is the way a mid-year 911 drives. Mine has a basic, fundamental feel to it that I really enjoy. I've driven a 964 and a 993, yet I still prefer my 77's feel. It's the same reason I rode Harley's, not Honda's, back in the day.
Perhaps one last thing to think about. If a guy likes the mid-year feel, and he wants to make a hot-rod out of it, that car seems like a pretty cheap platform to start with. Redo the tranny. Drive it until the 2.7 dies and drop in a 3.2. It will be a blast.
But like previously stated, you'll never make any money with it. Do it for your personal enjoyment or move on in a series of rapid, stepping motions.
Good Luck.
Perhaps one last thing to think about. If a guy likes the mid-year feel, and he wants to make a hot-rod out of it, that car seems like a pretty cheap platform to start with. Redo the tranny. Drive it until the 2.7 dies and drop in a 3.2. It will be a blast.
But like previously stated, you'll never make any money with it. Do it for your personal enjoyment or move on in a series of rapid, stepping motions.
Good Luck.
05-24-2005, 12:45 AM
#14
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I believe the 2.7 fear is over played way too much. I have one and if you take the time to solve heat issues which is the real killer of any air cooled motor, you will have a great running car. My 2.7 is a bear at the track and is very reliable. I have a 74 with the CIS system. I have spent about $800 dollars on solving heat issues. Well worth the investment. Buying the car will depend on what you are willing to do, to get it to the level of car you want. Thats the real issue. Thanks to advise from Bruce Andersons books I drive with confidence knowing that Im not damaging my car.
05-24-2005, 11:38 AM
#15
I didn't see the price, but if its really cheap. Buy it and beat it to death. Shouldn't take too long. Buy a 3.2 or 3.6 or even a 3.6 vario (price from $5 to $10k) install about $3k. Take the God awful bumpers off the thing and thow a suspension on it and you'll have a reliable and stonkin fast car that will last 20 more years. Did I happen to mention it will be really fast????
