84_Carrera

I happened across this eBay auction, and wondered where the 4-points mount, with the high-back seats. I'm going to be running into this predicament soon, with the Das bar going in (as soon as I acquire one, anyway).

I'd think if the rollbar had an additional horizontal brace at shoulder height they would mount there.

Any thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...527982972&rd=1

strupgolf

I think you have the wrong E-bay item in your thread; its for a 1987 cab. 911, unless you bought the whole car?

Bill Gregory

I wouldn't bother with 4 point belts, if you intend to drive on the track. They aren't allowed at any PCA DE event that I'm aware of. As an instructor, I wouldn't drive in the car with you with 4 point belts.

You either want to use your stock 3 points, which are OK starting out, or you get 5 or 6 point belts, and seats with cutouts in the shoulders for the shoulder harnesses. Harnesses on stock seats can slide up the seat, which is why some PCA regions require (or strongly recommend) seats that support the use of harnesses, and as I recall Schroth talks about this on their web site. If you get something like a Recaro SRD (now called the speed?), you can get an optional hole for a the antisub 5th belt.

84_Carrera

Sorry for the confusion...

4-points were mentioned, because I didn't see the 5th anti-sub belt in the camlock setup pic. I was wondering about the 2 shoulder belts most of all, since they were shown dangling down.

Yes, that's the correct auction. No, I'm not buying the car, but it's similar to the config I'll have: 84 Cab, w/ bar. I didn't see a cross-bar at the shoulder or slightly-below level, and was wondering where one would have mounted the shoulder belts, keeping them above 45° (or whatever the current recommended angle-of-death is for the shoulder belts).

I currently have a pair of Simpson 5-point camlocks sitting on the shelf, and would prefer to use those. I do not yet have sport-style seats with the cutouts, and have the stock highback / slide-belts-off-the-shoulders seats, which I'd obviously prefer to address prior to serious track duty.

Bill, having owned Schroth Rallye-4 harnessbelts in two of my SHOs, both of which have seen D/E dates at Summit Point, Watkins Glen and Lime Rock, what is your argument in preferring a 3-point retractor vs a 4-point fixed belt setup, given they're both using the stock mounting points on the lap belts (and in my case before), and using the rear seatbelt mounting points for the shoulder belts? Even with the twist-the-belt trick, I always felt far more confident with the Schroths than the stockers. With my track SHO, I had a bolt-in harness/rollbar, and had the shoulder-level crossbar for the welded mount points on my other set of Simpson 5-point (traditional lock). Just curious was all.

The meat of my original question is, I suppose: where in that picture would the previous owner have mounted the shoulder belts given that configuration?

Thanks all.

Bill Gregory

A 4 point belt setup does not have a sub strap, as does the 5/6 belt setups, to keep the lower belt in place, in the event of an accident. Given the choice between a 4 point belt and the 3 point belt, I'll take the 3 point belt. It's not that the 3 point belt is better than a harness, only that it's an alternative to the 4 point belts. I know people use them, however, I haven't seen where they are allowed for use by a Porsche club. When you get down to it, what price do you put on safety? (Which could kick off another thread, best placed in the Racing and DE Forum)

sjanes

Fred,

If you look closely at the 5th picture down on the left, you'll notice that he has a horizontal bar on the rollbar at shoulder height. You can see the black bar against the light colored seat, and you can see the harnesses hanging from it.. He does not however have the same setup for the passenger side, so this does not pass the "equal restraint" rule for PCA DE. I used to have a DAS rollbar in my 87 Targa (since replaced with a full cage) and it had a harness bar for both sides (http://members.rennlist.com/sjanes/interior.htm).

84_Carrera

I got it - thanks! I missed the driver's only bar.

Bill, I can understand the point on the non-sub belt, since it's very easy to have a slack lap belt, and then tighten the shoulder belts, pulling the lap belt up on your gut. I tend to seriously tighten the lap, then snug the shoulders appropriately. You're right of course, an argument for another thread / section / day.

Silly question, but is one of the rear jumpseats useable with the DAS bar installed, or must it be removed for rear use? Anyone know if getting the Recaros / Corbeaus / similar seats finished in a matching interior color (burgundy) is possible? I'd hate to two-tone, and swapping seats and the bar in & out would get pretty tedious for the number of dates I do a year -so far I have 5 tracks planned through June (Watkins Glen, NHIS, Lime Rock, Summit Point & Gingerman).

Anyone have any suggestions on how to get 4 track tires & supplies to the track with a 911, without a hauler & trailer? Is it possible to mount a tow hitch with a mini trailer for tires & a toolbox? This is getting serious now... I see many dollars fleeing from my wallet...

Bill Gregory

For safety reasons, you'd want to remove the bar for rear use.
I know Recaro comes in a number of colors, as I've ordered tan and navy (on SRDs and I assume the replacement, you could also specify the color of the Recaro logo stitching). Don't recall a burgundy in the Recaro line, though. Best Recaro prices I found in the area were through Greenfield Imported Car Parts in Massachusetts.
On pre-964's, you can hook up a hitch pretty easily. The rear bumper shock mounts provide a good base for a hitch. The best price performing trailer is from Harbor Freight, around $250 including spare. 3x4' has enough space for 4 wheels and a big lockable box. This is on my list of projects that just hasn't bubbled up higher, as I am usually able to have my track wheels carried by a friend when I go to the Glen/away tracks. For Lime Rock, I drive to the track.

sjanes

The DAS rollbar I had in my 87 used the mounting points for rear seat backs, so the rear seatback have to be removed to install the rollbar. I would not put anyone I didn't want to be hurt/killed in the back with a rollbar there.

I tow a 4x4 trailer with my 87. I carry 4 tires, tools and camping gear. I mount the hitch to the bumper. See https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=hitch for my solution.

HarryD

Jack Olsen has this solution:



Read about it here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...light=roof+img

84_Carrera

Excellent idea... for a coupe. Unforunately (?), I have a cab.

I like the hitch idea - I'll look into that further. Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

HarryD

duh..... should have read your car description first.

On here or pelican, there was discussion of mounting a hitch on a 911 and as best I recall, there were some pretty clever ideas of ways to do so and keep a good apperance.

Best of luck finding a solution.

DGaunt

what some people do is mount the shoulder belts to the rear seatbelt hard points, then pass them over a harness bar to prevent compression injuries. That way, no drilling is required.

HarryD

That is what I did with my Schroth Rallye 4 Belts and a Stable Energies Bar. It looks like this:

84_Carrera

Thanks guys. I found a guy in Canada making custom cages & roll / harnessbars on eBay today. I placed an order for the bar, and once it's here I'll look it over & see what I'm going to do harness-wise. If I want to use the Simpson 5-points I have now, I'll have to weld on mount points to the crossbar, otherwise I'll probably sell those off & get the style that slides / wraps around the bar itself.

Guy seems pretty decent in discussions with him today, and the price was very reasonable. Should have the bar in about 3 weeks or so.

On an unrelated note:
Also bought a 2nd Nakamichi CD400 today (having had the 1st deck in my 95 SHO for the past few weeks), along with a Clarion SRV303 powered subwoofer for under the pass. front seat. Sending off the check for the first few track days of the year on Tuesday, so I'm broke again.