arripley

I bought an '86 Carrera (93k miles) a couple months ago and have recently noticed some valve noise when the car is stuck in extended stop and go traffic on warmer days. Once the traffic subsides and the car cools off a bit, the noise goes away. Aside from that scenario, I never hear a peep out of the valves, but my imagination is running wild.

My first instict is to change the oil, since I think the PO might have put the wrong grade of oil in the car. If that doesn't work, I'd guess a valve adjustment would be the next step. But I worry -- is an occasional noise like this at high temperature consistent with very serious valve problems? Is it ever considered normal?

Peter Zimmermann

Do you have any idea about the car's oil consumption rate yet? Are you checking it regularly with the car at full temperature (front cooler hot to the touch), idling on level ground? If you're in a warm climate 20W/50 is a good viscosity. How long has it been since the valves were adjusted?
Pete

arripley

I hadn't been playing overly close attention to the oil levels since the electronic guage has been near the top of its range at full temperature and idle for the past 2,000 miles (I know it's not accurate, but I was being lazy I guess). I'll start tracking in detail from the dipstick now though. If it is consuming lots of oil, there isn't much in the way of other indications, since smell seems normal and there isn't any smoke to speak of (save the first couple minutes of steamy smoke). I just put a call into the PO to get more detail on recent service history (90k was supposedly done).

emac

I would suggest as Pete stated -- CHECK your oil, at the dipstick and as stated in Pete's poste.
If you have driven over 2,000 miles and have not checked the oil I would bet you are very low,
and this is the cause of your noise. Do not trust the guage. I would not drive another foot
until I was sure I had the correct amount of oil in your system.

Peter Zimmermann

ripley: Listen to emac! Check that oil - with the dipstick! - next time out. Actually, you might want to warm it up, at idle, in your garage with the engine lid down and a blanket over the engine lid grille. If you do it this way do not leave the car, stand by until the oil temp gauge is halfway or the front cooler is open (hot to the touch). Then pull the dipstick and...
Pete

Dan Cobb

If the oil level is so low that one shouldn't drive the car, why is letting it run up to temp at idle any better for the engine?
I wish there was a way of determining a "lower control limit" on the dipstick when the car is cold.
I mean, if there was absolutley no oil (not a drop) in the engine, you wouldn't know it until the damage was already done.
There must be a "plan B" approach to determining a safe (albeit too low for normal use) oil level.
Does a full tank even register on the dipstick when cold, I've never bothered to look?
+++

Peter Zimmermann

The only other way is to drain any oil that's left in the car (crankcase & tank), refill with about 8 quarts, cross your fingers and bring it up to temp.
Pete

glenncof

12 quarts (not 8) on my 1985

emac

I think he meant to get just enough in to be able to see any on the stick. 12 is just about full

jet911

If you're putting 12 Quarts in, you are overfilling. The entire system holds 12 -13 quarters including all oil lines, oil cooler, etc. During a routine oil change, I drain the tank and the engine, put in 8 quarts then start the car and allow to warm to operating temp, then add additional oil usually about 2 more quarts gradually, a half a quart at a time to bring it up to mid mark on the dip stick.

Peter Zimmermann

Thank you, Jim - you're right on the money!

Ernie, you're correct also. The car only needs a certain amount of oil to diagnose the existing problem.
Pete

der Mond

I'm daily driving my '87 Carrera (124K miles) in Alaska, and notice that my oil level guage starts registering when the temp needle moves a bit above the lowest shaded area on the temp guage. I have also been checking it at the dipstick like that. Today I followed your suggestion to blanket the grille and let it warm up good at idle, and despite the outside temp of +25 F., the fender oil cooler heated up just before the needle reached halfway up. At that temp the dipstick reading was about 1/4 - 3/8 inch higher than the previous reading. Does that seem normal? I would have expected more variance with the oil cooler and lines open. I was wondering primarily because I have developed oil leaks at both my lines between the external thermostat and the oil tank and engine oil line, and also what appears to be the front seal. I'd been thinking that if I was overfilling the oil, perhaps the oil that looks like it's coming from the front seal (and making quite a mess of the engine and tranny) might have been from the "breather(s)" I've heard about but haven't discovered yet, which other owners have said can make a mess of the engine if the oil is overfilled. But it appears that I have not been overfilling the oil, because I never fill it more than halfway between the marks on the dipstick. At the PPI at 118K miles, I was told there was a slight ooze from the front seal but not to worry about it until it was time to replace the clutch. Also, slight oozes were noted from the oil lines mentioned, but I was told it was better to not mess with those connectors until there was actual need, particularly the connectors at the thermostat end, because that could lead to additional problems. I switched from Mobil 1 15W-50 to Mobil 1 0W-40 in October to ease cold startup. Could the accelerated leaks be simply from the decreased viscosity? Could I have damaged the front seal further by starting the engine cold (-15 F.)? I have noticed that once it got cold outside, after the engine caught initially, about 1-2 seconds later there was another little soft thunk from the engine compartment - is that the sound of the oil encountering resistance? I also noticed today that on the lower oil line I mentioned, I could rotate the rubber portion back and forth a couple millimeters at the connectors with the engine dead, but not once it started. Is it adviseable to try tightening the connector fittings on these lines to try and stop leaks, or should I just replace them? I have no record to document if they were replaced previously. The engine leaks at about the rate of a drop every 5 minutes with the engine running. Should I just have the seal replaced? How expensive are we talking? OK - enough questions.. Thank you for your great book - I used it to select my car, with no regrets, and recommend it to others.

Auto_Werks 3.6

Regarding checking the oil on the stick when the engine is cold: I have found that when my 83 SC is stone cold, there will be the smallest drop of oil at the end of the dip stick. don't take my word for it as it may vary between cars, especially since you guys have the 3.2 . This has definitely given me peace of mind when starting after it has been stored for a couple weeks.

Peter Zimmermann

der Mond: It sounds like you're maintaining your oil level perfectly, about halfway between the marks on the stick when the front cooler becomes hot is perfect. Yes, as the engine goes through it's natural warm-up from cold the oil level will continue to rise until the whole system is involved. Depending on mileage, the front seal leak might not be the crank seal. Do you have the ability to check the thermostat o-ring on top of the crankcase? The thermostat is located slightly to the right of center, and you should be able to see it with minimal part removal (mirror and flashlight are helpful). The part you can see is aluminum, and is held almost flat to the crankcase by two 10mm wrench size nuts. It's round with two ears, where the nuts are, across from each other. I'll bet (gentleman's, of course) that it's wet.

You should probably replace the two oil lines that connect to the rear facing positions of the front cooler thermostat, and if it's old, replace the "S" shaped suction hose also (the one with a hose clamp at each end). The S hose can develop cracks that are very hard to see unless the car is on a lift. Start using a good penetrant where the two lines attach to the thermostat housing, the biggest problem is the housing threads get damaged when the oil lines are removed.

Thank you for the nice words, and I hope that you get the leaks sorted with a minimum of fuss.
Pete

der Mond

Many thanks to Ryan and Peter for your prompt and very helpful responses. I will do more sleuthing. I have already replaced the "S" hose. Pete, may Minnesota provides many great back roads for the SC