replace starter without dropping engine?
Thread Starter
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
replace starter without dropping engine?
Hi all,
I'm new to the forum -- I just bought the 1971 911T that was listed in the for sale section on here. Flew up to Portland yesterday morning to check it out -- it looks great and runs great, so I bought it and drove it the 600 or so miles back down to San Francisco yesterday afternoon/evening. What a great drive! I've got some pictures up at <a href="http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/porsche" target="_blank">http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/porsche</a>
Unfortunately, after stopping for a restroom break halfway through the drive down, I discovered that the starter motor had given up on me. Fortunately, I was parked on a hill, so I was able to roll start it and drive it the rest of the way home. Same problem once I got it home though. When I turn the key, to the start position, the lights dim a bit, but nothing happens -- not even a click. So I suspect the starter solenoid.
I read through Haynes, and it appears that you need to drop the engine in order to get access to the starter. Is this really the case? Is this a feasible do-it-yourself job?
That said, does anyone have Porsche mechanics to recommend in San Francisco? I'm think I'm going to have a "post-purchase" inspection done so I can see what I've gotten myself into, whether or not I end up doing the starter myself.
I'm new to the forum -- I just bought the 1971 911T that was listed in the for sale section on here. Flew up to Portland yesterday morning to check it out -- it looks great and runs great, so I bought it and drove it the 600 or so miles back down to San Francisco yesterday afternoon/evening. What a great drive! I've got some pictures up at <a href="http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/porsche" target="_blank">http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/porsche</a>
Unfortunately, after stopping for a restroom break halfway through the drive down, I discovered that the starter motor had given up on me. Fortunately, I was parked on a hill, so I was able to roll start it and drive it the rest of the way home. Same problem once I got it home though. When I turn the key, to the start position, the lights dim a bit, but nothing happens -- not even a click. So I suspect the starter solenoid.
I read through Haynes, and it appears that you need to drop the engine in order to get access to the starter. Is this really the case? Is this a feasible do-it-yourself job?
That said, does anyone have Porsche mechanics to recommend in San Francisco? I'm think I'm going to have a "post-purchase" inspection done so I can see what I've gotten myself into, whether or not I end up doing the starter myself.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Denver
Not so fast, Dog!
First, you probably don't need to drop the motor to change the starter. The exception might be really corroded or stuck nuts holding it on.
You may not even need a new starter, though. The first thing to check is the transmission to engine ground strap as well as the big wire that connects to the center terminal on the starter.
Both of these can be accessed by jacking up either the right side of the car or (favorably) the rear of the car. With the car up in the air, get on you back and slide under it just ahead of the right rear wheel. The ground strap is the braided thng that you will see bolted to the body and to the transmission (it is kind of tucked up under the transmission mounting bar that runs across the bottom of the trasmission. I would first, make sure it is tight. If it is, I would loosen it and sand it and the body slightly to make sure you are getting a good connection.
If all is good on the strap, move to the starter. It is in the same vacinity. Lying in the same position, look towards the back of the car and you should see the starter up on top of the transmission back towards the engine. It will have three (I think) wires connected to the solinoid. Do the same checks you did on the ground strap.
If, after doing these checks, it still doesn't start, it's time for the starter to get replaced.
Good luck,
Jess
First, you probably don't need to drop the motor to change the starter. The exception might be really corroded or stuck nuts holding it on.
You may not even need a new starter, though. The first thing to check is the transmission to engine ground strap as well as the big wire that connects to the center terminal on the starter.
Both of these can be accessed by jacking up either the right side of the car or (favorably) the rear of the car. With the car up in the air, get on you back and slide under it just ahead of the right rear wheel. The ground strap is the braided thng that you will see bolted to the body and to the transmission (it is kind of tucked up under the transmission mounting bar that runs across the bottom of the trasmission. I would first, make sure it is tight. If it is, I would loosen it and sand it and the body slightly to make sure you are getting a good connection.
If all is good on the strap, move to the starter. It is in the same vacinity. Lying in the same position, look towards the back of the car and you should see the starter up on top of the transmission back towards the engine. It will have three (I think) wires connected to the solinoid. Do the same checks you did on the ground strap.
If, after doing these checks, it still doesn't start, it's time for the starter to get replaced.
Good luck,
Jess
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 10
From: Virginia Beach, Va.
I think Jess has done this once or twice before? 
Great suggestions Jess! By all means, check your ground strap...another thing you may notice going bonkers if your ground strap is bad are your gauges.
To answer your question though, NO, the engine will not have to be dropped to remove the starter...although lowering it a bit will help drastically.
Porsche installed an allen nut on the upper starter mount stud to make removal/installation easier. Just be sure to disconnect your battery before you begin starter removal...or else it can get a little exciting!!
Once you remove the wiring off the starter, you only have two nuts and you're off! Good luck, let us know what you find wrong with your new toy.
Great suggestions Jess! By all means, check your ground strap...another thing you may notice going bonkers if your ground strap is bad are your gauges.
To answer your question though, NO, the engine will not have to be dropped to remove the starter...although lowering it a bit will help drastically.
Porsche installed an allen nut on the upper starter mount stud to make removal/installation easier. Just be sure to disconnect your battery before you begin starter removal...or else it can get a little exciting!!
Once you remove the wiring off the starter, you only have two nuts and you're off! Good luck, let us know what you find wrong with your new toy.
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Joined: May 2001
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Piece of cake, but make sure that it's your starter before you pull it. I would check out Project 87 in this book:
<a href="http://www.101projects.com" target="_blank">http://www.101projects.com</a>
before you begin. Also, you might want to upgrade to a high-torque starter. They are smaller, more powerful, and lighter weight (newer technology than the 30+ year old Bosch starters).
-Wayne
<a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com" target="_blank">http://www.pelicanparts.com</a>
<a href="http://www.101projects.com" target="_blank">http://www.101projects.com</a>
before you begin. Also, you might want to upgrade to a high-torque starter. They are smaller, more powerful, and lighter weight (newer technology than the 30+ year old Bosch starters).
-Wayne
<a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com" target="_blank">http://www.pelicanparts.com</a>
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Advanced
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Bridgewater, NJ
I would verify that it is not just your solenoid, a quick fix for about 33$ from MARK in boston.
And to remove the starter is very easy after you do a partial engine drop, just a little goes a long way!
Hey the car is a beauty!
And to remove the starter is very easy after you do a partial engine drop, just a little goes a long way!
Hey the car is a beauty!
Addict
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 59
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
I had a similar problem on my SC, the starter wouldn't turn only when the car was hot. The brake light would light up ocassionaly on its own. After going razy, I contacted Bruce Anderson and his reply was, replace your ground strap.
I have bought 2 additional 911's since and I replace the ground strap right away (sort of like the timing belt on a 944). Keep in mind, we are referring to the ground strap on the tranny.
I replaced my starter later on with the high torque one, it is much lighter and quieter than the original (not to mention cheaper). You don't have to remove the engine for this.
I have bought 2 additional 911's since and I replace the ground strap right away (sort of like the timing belt on a 944). Keep in mind, we are referring to the ground strap on the tranny.
I replaced my starter later on with the high torque one, it is much lighter and quieter than the original (not to mention cheaper). You don't have to remove the engine for this.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 30
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JimDog--
In addition to replacing the ground strap, you should consider the Bosch fix, part no. WR1, available from Zims 800-356-2964 for about $12. It consists of wiring and a relay. You need to drill a small hole to attach the relay near the solenoid, otherwise a very simple fix. Basically, the fix gets around the overheated solenoid. The kit comes with very good instructions. I am not familiar with your year/model, but I know this fix has worked with many older 911s with this very common problem.
In addition to replacing the ground strap, you should consider the Bosch fix, part no. WR1, available from Zims 800-356-2964 for about $12. It consists of wiring and a relay. You need to drill a small hole to attach the relay near the solenoid, otherwise a very simple fix. Basically, the fix gets around the overheated solenoid. The kit comes with very good instructions. I am not familiar with your year/model, but I know this fix has worked with many older 911s with this very common problem.
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1st Gear
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Chicago-IL-USA
Jim & group,
I've got a similar problem with my recently purchased 70' 911E. It seems to take two or three turns of the key to get the starter to engage, however I don't have any of the issues related to the lights dimming or such.
Any chance this might just be a bad ignition switch? Is the ignition switch worth replacing first? I'm thinking of re-keying the whole car anyway, as the passenger door lock doesn't work at all (w/Key), and the driver one is very sticky.
Thanks,
Andy
I've got a similar problem with my recently purchased 70' 911E. It seems to take two or three turns of the key to get the starter to engage, however I don't have any of the issues related to the lights dimming or such.
Any chance this might just be a bad ignition switch? Is the ignition switch worth replacing first? I'm thinking of re-keying the whole car anyway, as the passenger door lock doesn't work at all (w/Key), and the driver one is very sticky.
Thanks,
Andy
Racer
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 251
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
I Recently thought my starter was bad for the same reason, but if I jump started it word start just fine so I swapped batteries and the car fired right up, so I took my relatively new battery from the car with me and the car back to the parts store where I bought it for a replacement, they said they'd have to test it first so I let them give it a good charge and it tested perfect, I then asked them to test my electrical system and it turned out I had something putting a load on my alternator just enough to slowly drain the battery. I later found out that I had a short in may amp meter gauge on the dash. (It hadn't worked since I bought the car) I'd fully charge the battery, check or replace the ground strap and see what happens.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 497
Likes: 2
From: Severna Park, MD
The ignition switch on my SC is hit or miss. Very rarely I key it to start and get nothing. Try it again and it always works. If you hit the key and get nothing at all, and the battery is ok, the switch is suspect.
This job is not all that easy though as you have to drill/cut out the shear bolts that hold the switch in. I have read some it is possible to replace just the electric postion on the back, but with my gorilla hands I dont know.
This job is not all that easy though as you have to drill/cut out the shear bolts that hold the switch in. I have read some it is possible to replace just the electric postion on the back, but with my gorilla hands I dont know.
AutoX
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Targaman or anyone else who can help:
I had the same problem on my 80SC. Changed the ground strap and bought a starter relay.
Where is the best place to install the relay? It looks like there is a wall in front of the starter. Is this a good place to mount it? I don't know what is on the other side and do not want to start drilling holes before I find out.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
I had the same problem on my 80SC. Changed the ground strap and bought a starter relay.
Where is the best place to install the relay? It looks like there is a wall in front of the starter. Is this a good place to mount it? I don't know what is on the other side and do not want to start drilling holes before I find out.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
