gdepree

Hey everyone, I'm brand new to the boards! I was advised to come to these forums and ask ya'll about the 1975 911S Targa, specifically if there is anything in particular that I should watch out for when buying one.

I've recently located one that has had the Engine/Tranny/Clutch rebuilt, blueprinted, and ported/polished. It's a 5 Speed Manual, lowered to Euro specs.

I've gone through a visual inspection of the car once with the mechanic and we came across:

Leaking shocks, various seals that should be replaced, minor rust on the doors where the water runs off the bottom. (quoted 1500 for parts and labor)

We checked where the suspension meets the frame and it appears to be intact without damage.

There is minor issues regarding the Targa Top that will be handled at a later date. Interior is pristine.

Is there any other locations, common problems and what not to look out for with this model? I have access to the entire service history on the car. There was heavy work done in the early 80's with the suspension and the engine (which is when it was rebuilt for a hefty sum). I'm aware of tensioner replacements but as to if they were updated to a more recent standard, I'm not completely sure. I have the complete print out on all the work performed during the rebuild/blueprint/port & polish stage of the engines life. There was mention of valve guides, I do recall these being something of an issue for this particular year. I'll be returning Tuesday for a second look at the car so if anyone has any suggestions, fire away!

Any help would be appreciated, if all goes well I hope to stick around and enjoy the Porsche with the rest of you!

Peter Zimmermann

"Blueprinted, ported and polished" are things usually not mentioned in the same sentence as "911". Porsche does such a good manufacturing job that the things you mention are only done in very unique applications. A 1975 2.7L engine with CIS fuel injection won't benefit from any of it, actually polishing might reduce the efficiency of the fuel injection. Anyway, there's a ton to know about '75 911s, and I humbly encourage you to log on to Amazon.com and order my book, "The Used 911 Story". I think that you'll find it immensely helpful - I couldn't begin to tell you, in this forum, about the possible problems that car might have. "Minor" Targa top problems are rarely minor, and a re-do can get quite expensive. Rust is always a bad thing, if it's in one place it's often in another. "Leaking seals", what does that mean? Is this car going to be used in California, or another state with tough smog laws and annual inspections? Is its smog pump intact and functional? Will the seller guarantee that the car will pass smog? You mention a PPI that seems like it was a casual affair, was a leakdown test done on the engine? Were the valve covers removed and the cylinder head torque checked? Just a few things to think about...
Pete

gdepree

I am new to most things when dealing with a used Porsche. Through time, effort, and hopefully not too much money, I will come to take a much more knowledgable stance on topics such as PPIs.

I'll definitely check out your book, based on what you've just begun to scratch the surface with i'm sure it will be more than helpful!

To clarify, the seals are not leaking but the shocks had some sort of dark fluid on them, to which the Mechanic stated that the shocks were leaking and should be replaced. As stated i'll be returing for a second visit, this time with another person who has a bit more knowledge than I do with older cars.

The car is an Illinois car, having resided here its entire life. It's had two owners, brother-in-laws, it's entire lifespan and has been serviced at the same shop (per the service history given). As for the smog tests, Illinois, particularly the area I am from, is pretty strict on smog tests. The owner of the vehicle resides in the same location. I will be sure to inquire heavily about the smog/emissions equipment. We did look at one of the filters that was added in '75 as part of the new EPA minded trend. It was very well maintained.

I am aware that it could cost a minimum 600-1000 for replacing the targa top or parts of it. The problem is with one of the release handles which may be replaceable, not sure. (I came across a website that sold Targa Top Handles as a part of their product line up, I'm going to inquire if these are the same thing as the release handles) There are no rips/tears what have you on the Targa Top itself. Merely the handle. As I will be keeping the car in a heated garage during the winter and driving it mainly on sunny days (mainly refering to those horrible Chicago moments of sunny skies turning into a storm rather quickly), the Targa Top issues will be extensively researched.

I'll definitely check into the valve covers and cylinder head torque ASAP.

I really do appreciate your response and I'll check into the book tonight, one of my family members may actually have it. (Two 911S models so far and mine will be the third, 1969 and 1974 respectively.)

I'll see if I can't get my hands on the engine rebuild print out either this weekend or Monday so I can put it up here.

- George

gdepree

Just read the tech area and I have taken a few more notes on what to look for with the rebuild. I believe they did part of the 'normal' upgrades for the 2.7 engine in terms of maximizing its lifespan and potential. I remember seeing threads mentioned on the print out, I'll double check for pop-off and tensioner. There was tensioner work but I am not sure on the specifics.

JackOlsen

Bear in mind that the 1975 911 might be the single least-valued year of the model. If the car you're looking at was never California-legal, it's one step ahead of the game, but 75's typically (always?) came without an auxilliary cooler, and suffered from heat-related problems with the magnesium cases. Rebuilding the motors addresses many of the problems, but these were quirky cases that needed rebuilders who knew their idiosyncracies.

1974-77 911's can be great bargains, precisely because they come from the least-valued era of the 911 model. But if you're paying a premium price for the car, then understand that you may never get it back. Make sure you get a thorough pre-purchase inspection by a shop that not only knows 911's, but knows the 74-77 cars in particular. Unfortunately, they are a very common 'first' 911. New owners learn expensive lessons from them and generally move on to better examples from the same era, or to SC's or Carreras.

gdepree

Im paying roughly 11k for the car and it's not a California spec car.

Peter Zimmermann

Here's one that'll blow you away! Late this summer past I saw an auction sale in SCM - $21K for a 1976 911S with nothing special done to it!!! They even stated it was fitted with the original engine. Man, talk about over-paying! Anyway, if the engine case had professionally installed case savers and an alignbore check at rebuild time you should be OK (both indicate that a knowledgable shop did the work). Being a non-CA car is a big plus, and if you get a smog pump with the car that's also a plus. It sounds like you've got a good handle on the top issues, that's good. A pop-off valve is the least important item on the list, a properly tuned/adjusted CIS car doesn't even need one (that'll ruffle some feathers!). Airboxes replaced since the early '80s have an internal fuel diffuser, for the cold start injector, that sprays the gas at the intake valve, rather than letting it gather in the plenum chamber. If the CO% and cold-contol pressure is set correctly all you have to do is turn the key... I know, some of you guys don't have the convenience of a shop that can/will make sure all your car's settings are right on, for you the pop-off valve might represent an insurance policy of sorts. Personally, the shop has had a number of tow-ins that had blown airboxes, FITTED WITH pop-off valves, so I don't put much value in them. Make sure that leakdown and head re-torque get done!
Pete

DGaunt

No one has mentioned a leakdown and compression test. Would not buyit w/o one.

given the targa top, shocks and rust treapirs mentioned, 11K Us seems a little high. Maybe 11K less the prediceded cost to return the car to top ocnditoin? if not, I'd be looking at a 12-15K SC. More durable, more wheel options. This, from a guy that has a '76, which I love, but has been a 15 year journey of putting things right. Also, if you are going to track the car, budget for an aux. cooler.

gdepree

Just looking for a fun, older Porsche to enjoy for moderate driving (secondary vehicle, will be a part of a mostly family member cruising club currently hosting a 1969 911S and a 1974 911S along with a 1986 928 (manual) ) I will also be learning the basic mechanics of the car, as the older they are, the less technical they are. 11K is the lowest i've seen for a car with this kind of interior condition. Granted the issue with the Targa, which itself is in good condition, the handle is the issue. (no tears and what have you). I more or less expected to have some items that needed repairing on the car, and the 12-15k range is more than suitable for my current budgeting plans.

As for track, personally at this stage I haven't given much thought to it as it would likely increase the wear and tear on the car. I can't really make a judgement on that step yet.

When I go back this Tuesday to find out the results of the PPI we'll see how things are.

gdepree

I should be posting the specs of the rebuild later today...PPI came back clean for the most part, just some misc seals, the shocks, brake pads, and the CV boots are going to be replaced as well as new tires. The owner of the dealer/shop is going to do all of the work for 2k. He's also going to get us a deal with the bodyshop he uses for his personal 911 (he races on the track with it) to take care of the clear coat patina and the doors. (We're aiming for about 1500 for all of that.) As for the road test, we took it out on both the city streets and the highway. The car tracked properly and responded smoothly. The shifting was smooth and accurate and the clutch felt right. We did identify some smaller items with the car that they offered to handle under the 2k adjustments for free. All in all, we're very impressed with the car.

I'll have the rest of the information up soon.

JackOlsen

Wait, does that mean you're now paying 14.5K for the car?

gdepree

In effect, that is the price.

Here is the story, which I am sure at least one of you can relate to:

The car has been passed between two families in IL for its entire life. The current owner is going through a nasty divorce, the wife wants the car and he's not willing to let her have it. He originally took the car in for some work, and once the car was in the shop and in-shop inspections turned up more work (IE the shocks), he made the decision to sell as he could not be spending money on a car during a nasty divorce case without raising some issues.

So he priced the car low with the understanding that there was still some work left to be done. My original budget called for roughly 15k so in all, it works out, and I'm helping a Porsche owner find a loving home for his car so it escapes the grasp of his soon to be ex-wife.

gdepree

Now, here is a question for everyone: I recently received the Porsche 911 "Red Book 1965-1999" edition. Using the book I was verifying the VIN and locating other useful information about the car. I have what appears to be a car sold between August of 1975 and July 1976. I assume this would be considered in current standards a '1975.5-76' year car. The VIN is 9116210376, showing that its a 1976 year car, 911S US Spec, and a Targa. The original ad stated it as a 1975 and the Red Book does give some room for this statement to remain true. My question, and maybe someone here can give some insight, is if the 1975.5 had the undercarriage rust protection that the 1976 had, seeing that its an 'early release' of the upcoming years model.

Sorry if that's not explained in the clearest of fashions, I'll do the best to re-explain if necessary.

Since I have the information in front of me, here are the rebuild specs (i should have a link up to photos of the actual build specs once I get back to my apt later this evening.)

Rebuilt: June 1982
Capitol Import Autos Inc. (specialized Porsche, Audi, Fiat shop)

***the following is word for word whats on the paper***

Installed Parts at Rebuild:
Main Bearings - Standard Size
Connecting Rod Bearings - Standard Size
Intermediate Shaft Bearings - Standard Size
Both time Chains with Master Link
Both Hyr. Chain Tensioners - Rebuildable Type
Both Camshaft Timing Sprockets
Two Exhaust Valves (#5 cylinder and #6 cylinder)
Carrera 2.7 Exhaust System (Porsche Equipment)
Piston Rings - Standard Size
Fuel Distributor
Heavy Duty Clutch Disc

Engine Adjusting Data:
Spark Plug Type (W235 P21 Bosch -- 0.6mm Gap)
Timing (Engine Warm)
Dwell Angle -- 35° to 40°
Ignition -- 30° to 35° at 6000 rpm (vaccum hose detached)
C.O. Setting -- 2% to 4% (air pump hose detached & plugged)
Valve Setting -- .004° (engine cold)
Idle Speed -- 900 RPM (engine warm)
Valve Timing -- .75 mm to .90mm (measured at valve over **page cut off**)

Other Work Done at Rebuild:
Blueprint engine to factory specs
Engine balanced with flywheel and pressure plate
Connecting Rod - 740 Grms with Bearing Shells
Pistons - 593 grams fully assembled
Height group 6
Bore - 90.005 standard marked "O"
Mahle Pistons LS Type
Hone 6 cylinders to same size - 90.005
Polish all intake and exhaust valves
Clean-up and light polish all ports
Cut Three angles on all valve seats
Set all spring heights - 35mm intake
- 35.5mm exhaust
All valve seats set to 1.5mm wide
All exhaust valve guides replaced
Alternator replaced after rebuild with new S.E.X. Marshel 70 amp

******************

That is all from the spec print out of the rebuild...the dealer has the original reciepts with the part numbers.

The engine does have a pop-off valve and we'll be putting on the 11-blade fan at the time of the purchase/other work.

gdepree

was looking over some of the points made earlier:

Compression test was recently completed before the car was put up for sale...it had an issue with the airbox, they did a compression test during that barrage of problem solving.

When I asked about a leakdown, they replied that they had recently performed quote "some valve work" on the car and did not feel that a leakdown was neccessary. Due to the other responses i've received from them on various issues, all honest and upfront, I did not press this any farther. The dealer has proven thus far not to be shady or greedy as some can be. He's been the ideal salesman/middleman for this deal, answering all the questions on the spot or performing requested tests ASAP.

JackOlsen

Okay. But let me give you another interpretation of events. A guy is going through an expensive divorce. He needs money. He has a car that's worth about $7,000. Along with a dealer, he locates a guy with $15,000 to spend on a 911. He and the dealer price the car accordingly.

$11,000 is a high price for a 1976 Targa. With that kind of a price tag, the car should really be in near-showroom condition with very few miles on the odometer. It's surprising that you took it in for a PPI, and somehow ended up being out-of-pocket another $3,500. Normally, it works the other way. You agree on a price, and the work that's needed is deducted from that price, not added to it.

$14,500 is a very high price for a 1976 Targa. If you love the car, and can afford it, and don't want the hassle of looking at other ones, then by all means buy it and enjoy it. The sum total of the 911 experience is not only about getting a great deal on the initial purchase. But you're going to have a tough time selling it for anywhere near that price down the line. 1974-77 911's generally sell for 6K-10K, depending on condition, and the model has not reached the end of its depreciation curve yet. You could get a good 84-86 Carrera for that kind of money.

It sounds like you're set on the car (and heck, it's Christmas), so I don't want to come off like some kind of jackass and try to convince you you're making a huge and irreversible mistake. If you love the car, then buy it and enjoy it. The 911 is an awesome sports car. In my opinion, everyone should own one.

But if it's not too late, I'd think about the deal before you sign anything. You could get a much faster/newer/more-reliable 911 for the kind of money you're talking about. (As an exit strategy, you could use the fact that the dealer is representing a 1976 car as a 1975. The "6" in the VIN means it was not sold as a 1975 model year car.)