Hi all!

I'm usually in the 993 board, but I'd appreciate your collective expertise/advice here. Thanks in advance!!!

I'm considering a 74 911 with an '80 3litre in it. Yes, I'll be getting a PPI w/compression/leakdown when I get to "that" point, but what should I be looking for before I get to that stage? (i'e. it's out of state and I would like to get as much legwork done before I truck my butt over there).

According to the PO, the 3.0 engine (which was done before he owned it so his first-hand knowledge is limited) has the CIS, unknown exhaust (he thinks it's stock SC), popoff valve, and pressure-fed carrera tensioners. Any other "essentials" I should be looking for? He says the tranny feels good, but i'm wondering if it is the original 915 tranny from the 2.7? Would it just mate to the 3.0 engine? He did say that he got the updated clutch with the spring center instead of the exploding rubber center...this is good, right? And no rust, either.

I'm going to be turning this car (slowly, as budget dictates) into a track car that's street legal. What year did the "S" come in, and what did it get you over the non-S? How are the brakes on the 74...track worthy or will upgrade be "a must?" Overall, If any of you can give me ideas on what else to inquire about, I'd really apprecaite it. I'm fairly savvy mechanically, but the 74 is a completely new animal to me and I don't want to make any costly mistakes. Thanks, all...really do apprecaite it!!

Edward

 

smog? is it a CA legal conversion? Pre 76 is exempt.............as of now. who nows if they will roll it back to 73 and earlier.
915 from the 2.7-3.0 is essentially the same.
74 the S was kinda the mid level model like the earlier E, and the Carrera was the "hot rod" used in place of the S, get that?
for 1974, 911 will have a "1" for the 5th digit in the vin, S will be a "3" and Carrera wil be "4" for a U.S. car and "6" for R.O.W.
you left out a tiny detail......price?

 

fixnprsh,

Hey, you're in socal as well...cool.

AFAIK, 74 is still CA smog exempt (hence my choice in year since pre-74 is sooo pricey).

Thanks for the info on the tranny. Probably original, then. All I know is it's a 5 speed and the PO has no idea on LSD...was it even available? Is the "update" on the clutch a good thing?

As for the "S" vs non "S" differences, I'm more curious about brakes. I know about the HP diff, but with the SC engine in it, that should "balance" out the fact that it's only a regular 74

Thanks for the VIN info...will check it out.

As for price, I intentionally left that out. The car (from pics and the owner's description) seems well cared for with good paint. Assuming all's well with the 3.0 concersion and other mechanicals, what would be a reasonable price?

Edward

 

hard to say as far as price on "custom cars" with out seeing pics its hard to say. NADA suggests a low of $8100 to a high of $15,200 for a 74 S for rough estimate, but since its not original i would suggest a few thou more than the low number if the swap is clean. if the whole car is clean and well sorted maybe 10-12K, remember a clean SC is a little higer than that. like I said though, pics really help.

as far as suspension and brakes, Im not exactly sure of the specifics. for these cars, i know they got aluminum arms in the rear and a simpiler sway bar in the front at 16mm and optional 20mm front and 18mm rear. as far as the LSD, see if its difficult to turn the rear wheels in the oposite dirctions from each other when they are both off the ground, really hard, LSD, easy, open diff. you can also try to push the car with the wheel turned all the way left/right and the box in neutral, you can actually feel the LSD if its hard to push in this position, sometimes they growl real loud doing a U turn if swepco isn't used.

rubber centered clutches were hand grenades wating to go off. interesting it was just replaced as I thought most all would have been buy now which might suggest it has the 80 SC trans too and it might have low mileage/easy driver history and SC motors are pretty bullet proof and are notorious for going well into the 200K mile range.

As far as smog, your safe NOW but there are rumblings of a repeal on the whole thing so be forewarned, but as long as it has all its O.E. devices accessible such all the CIS injection, cat and smog pump and other goodies, you should be fine getting a write off as I have a friend with a little 92 GTI with a 220 hp 98 drivers edition VR6 swap that has been deemed good by the referee.

One plus is that in a 74 you can back date the exhaust and add a set of carbs easily for plenty more power, and cams.... if you stick with carbs there are lots of options. the car could be alot of fun and smack your 993 on its ear. despite it not being original, its your money and your car so if it calls your name go for it!

 

Check front calipers. There were two. The basic steel caliper and the aluminum "S" caliper. Not sure exactly what the availabliliyt was. In either case, you may want to plan on a replacement. The steel is probably marginal for track, and the "S" caliper can be extremely expensive to replace or rebuild. You can probably do a conversion to turbo brakes for a few thousand dollars.... well worth the investment for track.

3.0 conversion to stock 915 should be streaightforward if done properly, and a desirable engine. More power and longevity relative to the original 2.7.

Also check for rust.... the 74 was not galvanized.

This could make the basis for a nice track car.... expect to eventually flare the fenders... you will definately want more rubber for a track car.

I'd tend to want to pay less then 10K for this car.... you can buy a really nice SC for mid-teens...

 

Great info, guys...Thanks! ...and keep em coming if you please

fixnprsh,
Thanks for the detail and advice, and for the encouragement. This car just may have my name on it

JCP911S,
I've heard that the Turbo brakes are the most stratightforward/cost effective brake mod for the track. That was one of my "Wish list" items, hoping that I could get by for a while on the OE system with a good set of track pads. Am I being foolish in this or do you think I will have to move it up on my "things to do" list ...after seats and safety, of course.

Indeed, I'm "hoping" to pay less than 10K as well...will post if successful. I started out looking for an SC (as you noted the price is close), but I wanted smog exempt for the CA smog *****. Plus, isn't a 74 lighter than an SC??

Edward

 

"Plus, isn't a 74 lighter than an SC??"

Yes.

Also, the 3.0 liter engine conversion on these cars is pretty straightforward. As for CIS... well, since all the SCs (78-83) had CIS, it's what you'd expect to be on a normal 3.0 liter engine.

As for value, since the only big criticism of the mid year 2.7 cars was the 2.7 engine itself. In my opinion, the easy swap to a 3.0 could only improve the value, and likley performance of the car.

-MAS

 

Edward, you don't say what your experience is on the track. A '74 should have the same ventilated rotors on the front as my '76 and unless you are a real lion on the track, thye should do you for a seaspon or two. If the fronts are solid rotors, they will not be enough. I agree that the ideal thing is the turbo brake conversion, but a stock 3.0 is not that much more powerful than the 2.7 that you should overwhelm the brakes on most track. Porsche brakes offer at least some headroom to handle more power. Other things to check is the colour of the brake fluid and rust under the battery tray and door bottoms. Good luck!

 

MAS : "As for value, since the only big criticism of the mid year 2.7 cars was the 2.7 engine itself. In my opinion, the easy swap to a 3.0 could only improve the value, and likley performance of the car."

holly crap, thats brilliant! very good point. an SC engine is far better than a 2.7 and would IMO bring the value up a hair, now why didn't I think of that?

d

 

fixnprsh... you may want to consider that not everyone is as familar with these cars as you are. Would you prefer in a 911 forum that nothing is said about the price/history of the mid year cars when the question is raised?

-MAS

 

Again, thanks for the input all!! If all goes well, I'll be back here on this board to post pics, AND to learn more!
:bye:

Dave,
I TimeTrial my 993, a daily driver which is stock except for the Bilsteins and M030 sways. Kumho Victoracers, PFC track pads, and harness get put on just for the event weekend. I'm probably around "just-faster-than-midpack" in my abilities, and have never had any brake issues with OE 993 brakes (simply awesome!) and the PFC pads. I'm hoping I will be ok with what I get at first because there will be no play money for some time. I'll have to make due with the minimums, but heck, I'm used to that Thanks for the specifics on the 74 brakes and the other spots to check for rust. BTW, did any 74 come with soild front rotors?

Edward

 

I don't think any '74 came with solids, but others will know better. I too inderstand better than most about 'no play money' but it is solid advice to put aside about $2,000.00 for incidentals unless the car is perfect. It is amazing how a few things can add up and this IS an older car....well older than my kids and they need maintenance! At least you have another car for back-up if the older one needs something. Part of the 'trouble' with these older carsis that htey were so well bolted together that lots of maintenance can be deferred. It's a little like musical chairs. If you have the pink slip when the music stops, well, it can escalate pretty quickly. Certinaly dont want to discourage you, just offering a realistic view. That being said, I LOVE my old 911. In fact, finally got a chance for my yongest son to drive it on the track this past weekend (Thanks MCO). He will get the car when it is pried out of my cold, dead hands, so that was really special. He did fantastically well too. Guess he was paying attention for all those laps in the right seat after all! Anyway, I ramble. The most important thing to remember about early cars is: 1) Buy the best example you can, and 2) There is NOTHING that cannot be corrected/improved with a sufficient injection of greenbacks.

 

Edward,

I, myself purchased a 74 911s with the 3.0 liter conversion a month ago and I love it!! I plan to also build it as a club racer/streetcar as Dinero and my wife allow. I had Mark and Anthony at Performance Porsche as well as Jae Lee over at Mirage give me the thumbs up on my plans considering I have a slightly moded car. First things I will address are a valve job and gaskets as well as oil runners, then heavier duty torsion bars and revalved bilstein I was told that the brakes on the S are more than adacuate for stopping performance being that the car is indeed lighter than the 75 and newer cars. My advise is if the price is right.....buy it!!! you'll have a blast. I wish you lots of luck on your pending purchase.

Alonso

 

Edward, OE brakes on the 74 are nowhere near the 993. However, they are Porsche brakes and thus adequate for track... (as opposed to most street cars where the brakes will melt down). Point is you will just have to drive within the limits of the car (which is what it is all about anyway). use high BP fluid and track pads, and be alert for fade. You will probably have to bleed them more reqularly than your 993.

You will have to use alot of leg... I do not believe these cars had power assisted brakes. My 70 with the S calipers stopped just fine, but I'd get out of the car with my right gluteals burning from the effort.... so much for Nautilus....

Also, prepare to meet your new best friend Mr Oversteer. I laugh when somebody with one of the newer 911s complains that it is tailhappy... on these early cars with equal (and narrow) tires front and rear, trail throttle oversteer can be savage... once you get used to them, they are a delight to drive, but you definately have to adapt your driving to the classic slow-in-fast-out later apex, power on at all times driving style... never early apex a turn. Never lift in a turn, and if you do, start countersteering as soon as you move your foot... believe me, you can;t do it quick enough.

Have fun.