Turbo-Look: Worth the extra money?
10-03-2004, 02:36 PM
#31
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The turbo look is a great looking car. There's no way to justify 10k, but do you need to? You obviously could spend much less money and bring your current 911 to the spec you want. If you like the way the TL looks and have the cash, you should go for it. You only live once. Enjoy your life to the fullest. 
10-03-2004, 03:51 PM
#33
Race Car
Yes, but the ALL CAPS on the verb almost got me to change my mind. 
If I had the funds to build a no-holds-barred street/track 911, it would not have a 77-89 Turbo motor in it. It would be a widebody, however.
If you put a Turbo badge on a non-turbo car, I'd say the sheep in wolf's clothing description might apply. As bones points out, Porsche -- and before them, the Kremer brothers -- were putting wide flares on race cars long before anyone decided to turbocharge a 911's flat six.
I like the look of widebody cars. But in my opinion, the pre-1974 narrow cars were the best-looking of the 911 litter. Good looks don't allow you to take corners faster, though.
If I had the funds to build a no-holds-barred street/track 911, it would not have a 77-89 Turbo motor in it. It would be a widebody, however.
If you put a Turbo badge on a non-turbo car, I'd say the sheep in wolf's clothing description might apply. As bones points out, Porsche -- and before them, the Kremer brothers -- were putting wide flares on race cars long before anyone decided to turbocharge a 911's flat six.
I like the look of widebody cars. But in my opinion, the pre-1974 narrow cars were the best-looking of the 911 litter. Good looks don't allow you to take corners faster, though.
10-03-2004, 05:38 PM
#34
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, I've figured out how to satisfy everybody - get the TL and add a turbo kit to it - no wait, even if it's faster than factory, it's still a "Fake" - never mind I've got it - get a "real" turbo and substitute a 912 badge for the turbo badge. Yea, that's the ticket.
I've got it - get a "real" turbo and substitute a 912 badge for the turbo badge. Yea, that's the ticket.
10-03-2004, 09:03 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Land of Milfs and honey (SoCal)
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by JBO
OK, I've figured out how to satisfy everybody - get the TL and add a turbo kit to it - no wait, even if it's faster than factory, it's still a "Fake" - never mind I've got it - get a "real" turbo and substitute a 912 badge for the turbo badge. Yea, that's the ticket.
I've got it - get a "real" turbo and substitute a 912 badge for the turbo badge. Yea, that's the ticket.
I like sleepers.
10-03-2004, 09:30 PM
#36
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As was established early in this thread, turbo look is a lot more than just fender flares and tail. As you were also advised, the asking price is out of line, e.g., an '84 factory wide body sold for 19.5k here in Metro-NY region a few months ago.
My '87 Carrera was a so-called "sleeper" for a while after a 3.6L engine transplant. Now it has the wide body to go along with the 300 hp - a fast wide bodied car w/out the turbocharger. Gotta love it. As for whether the car was actually faster before the wide body - I don't know about that. By removing the AC and some other pieces, the car is a little lighter than it was, lighter = faster.
Having owned both narrow & wide (in the same car!), I still prefer the "turbo look" of my wide bodied Carrera. To echo the advice of others here, drive what YOU like.
Richard
'87 Carrera RS - 3.6L widebody, etc.
'95 968 coupe
My '87 Carrera was a so-called "sleeper" for a while after a 3.6L engine transplant. Now it has the wide body to go along with the 300 hp - a fast wide bodied car w/out the turbocharger. Gotta love it. As for whether the car was actually faster before the wide body - I don't know about that. By removing the AC and some other pieces, the car is a little lighter than it was, lighter = faster.
Having owned both narrow & wide (in the same car!), I still prefer the "turbo look" of my wide bodied Carrera. To echo the advice of others here, drive what YOU like.
Richard
'87 Carrera RS - 3.6L widebody, etc.
'95 968 coupe
10-04-2004, 09:20 AM
#39
Drifting
Originally Posted by JackOlsen
Okay, creaturecat. We get it. You don't like Turbo-looks.
(But wider is still faster on a track.)
(But wider is still faster on a track.)
10-06-2004, 10:31 AM
#40
Intermediate
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone has touched on the point, but it can be blamed on marketing. As mentioned in Europe, the M491 option was refered too as the 'Supersport,' Therfore, it was not 'tagged' as a turbo-look as was considered a variant in its own right.
And yes, I own one! It looks as well as it handles on the track, faster than any narrow bodied car in the corners, as well as a few 964's & 993's. But thats just down too the mad hatter driving it!
And yes, I own one! It looks as well as it handles on the track, faster than any narrow bodied car in the corners, as well as a few 964's & 993's. But thats just down too the mad hatter driving it!
10-06-2004, 07:14 PM
#41
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For moi, Porsche like a beautiful woman must have nice hips and tail.
The turbo looks have always had a used premium over the non 3.2 Carrera.
I know what I spent on suspension upgrades alone for my 84. I put in new 84 turbo t-bars,
sway bars, tie rods etc. I did not do the brakes, but many have spent $3000 or more to upgrade them to turbo stocks. Remember though, that you are still dealing with a 20 year old car. The after market TL upgrades will not also hold the value of a factory TL.
FWIW, my X50 does not show much turbo lag.
regards,
Steve
regards,
The turbo looks have always had a used premium over the non 3.2 Carrera.
I know what I spent on suspension upgrades alone for my 84. I put in new 84 turbo t-bars,
sway bars, tie rods etc. I did not do the brakes, but many have spent $3000 or more to upgrade them to turbo stocks. Remember though, that you are still dealing with a 20 year old car. The after market TL upgrades will not also hold the value of a factory TL.
FWIW, my X50 does not show much turbo lag.
regards,
Steve
regards,
10-10-2004, 07:18 PM
#42
3rd Gear
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just picked up a TL car myself. 1984 w/ 60,000 miles. I was looking at early cars, had one selected, but just kept thinking about the TL car. It just haunted me for some reason. I love the early cars. I really do and I 've been waffling in this for a month. The TL car has alot of the features that I like with the )I believe) lesser over-all maintenance issues of a non-turbo.
The original tail comes with the car, but it has a ducktail on it now, the car is in excellent shape. paid near the mid 20's, but even though a guy can find a turbo for that, I think the TL car is the best option for me right now. I plan to R gruppe it with reversible updates and look forward to it's arrival.
I repect everyone's opinion, but the best advice here has been buy what you like and enjoy it.
A.B.
The original tail comes with the car, but it has a ducktail on it now, the car is in excellent shape. paid near the mid 20's, but even though a guy can find a turbo for that, I think the TL car is the best option for me right now. I plan to R gruppe it with reversible updates and look forward to it's arrival.
I repect everyone's opinion, but the best advice here has been buy what you like and enjoy it.
A.B.
10-13-2004, 12:51 AM
#44
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question: Turbo-Look: Worth the extra money?
Answer: Only if it's a Factory Optioned M491 Carrera... then Yes!
Don't worry about the negative feedback, dascar, "Darkness fleeith the light because it comprehendeth it not"... Just talk to some of the folks who acutally own one of these M491 optioned Carreras. I have owned mine for almost seven years and I'm still greatful to be "the keeper of the keys". Once you get your hands on one, you just might not want to let go!
A few facts:
1. The M491 optioned Carrera was the base car used by the factory to create the Turbo Carrera and 930 Turbo from 1975-1989.
2. Because they came with the "right stuff", and for that very reason, many examples have been converted to dedicated track cars and are no longer on the street.
3. The greatest number ever imported into North America in a one year period was during 1984, and totaled a mere 421 coupes and 2 Cabriolets.
4. M491 Coupes are almost three times as rare as the iconic M472 1973 RS 2.7 ( 688 over a six year period vs. 1500+ RSs produced in one year) and almost ten times as rare as 930 Turbos.
5. The price tag for the M491 option ranged from $10,000 in 1984 to more than $14,000 in 1989 over the base price of a standard Carrera. (Doing a "factory correct" conversion today will cost you $20-$30K over the cost of your donor car!)
6. A factory TL will always be worth far more than an aftermarket conversion because of its factory/racing pedigree (a.k.a. Certificate of Authenticity).
7. They are faster around the track in DE events than their narrow-bodied brethren due to a wider stance, factory supplied 917 brakes and upgraded suspension geomertry.
8. The only reason a person would rip on you for being a "poser" would be his total lack of knowledge concerning Porsche's racing history and not realizing the pivital role Option M491 played in achieving that mark.
9. Considering some of the afore mentioned reasons, factory optioned M491 Carreras are worth the added premium...
10. If you are seeking a classic, muscular-looking factory car with a menacing presence that's fun to drive, virtually bullet proof and will always remain a conversation piece; especially as a direct decendent of Porsches early RSR/RS hisory, just buy a real M491 optioned Carrera!
Just my .02 cents and worth almost every penny...
Answer: Only if it's a Factory Optioned M491 Carrera... then Yes!
Don't worry about the negative feedback, dascar, "Darkness fleeith the light because it comprehendeth it not"... Just talk to some of the folks who acutally own one of these M491 optioned Carreras. I have owned mine for almost seven years and I'm still greatful to be "the keeper of the keys". Once you get your hands on one, you just might not want to let go!
A few facts:
1. The M491 optioned Carrera was the base car used by the factory to create the Turbo Carrera and 930 Turbo from 1975-1989.
2. Because they came with the "right stuff", and for that very reason, many examples have been converted to dedicated track cars and are no longer on the street.
3. The greatest number ever imported into North America in a one year period was during 1984, and totaled a mere 421 coupes and 2 Cabriolets.
4. M491 Coupes are almost three times as rare as the iconic M472 1973 RS 2.7 ( 688 over a six year period vs. 1500+ RSs produced in one year) and almost ten times as rare as 930 Turbos.
5. The price tag for the M491 option ranged from $10,000 in 1984 to more than $14,000 in 1989 over the base price of a standard Carrera. (Doing a "factory correct" conversion today will cost you $20-$30K over the cost of your donor car!)
6. A factory TL will always be worth far more than an aftermarket conversion because of its factory/racing pedigree (a.k.a. Certificate of Authenticity).
7. They are faster around the track in DE events than their narrow-bodied brethren due to a wider stance, factory supplied 917 brakes and upgraded suspension geomertry.
8. The only reason a person would rip on you for being a "poser" would be his total lack of knowledge concerning Porsche's racing history and not realizing the pivital role Option M491 played in achieving that mark.
9. Considering some of the afore mentioned reasons, factory optioned M491 Carreras are worth the added premium...
10. If you are seeking a classic, muscular-looking factory car with a menacing presence that's fun to drive, virtually bullet proof and will always remain a conversation piece; especially as a direct decendent of Porsches early RSR/RS hisory, just buy a real M491 optioned Carrera!
Just my .02 cents and worth almost every penny...
Last edited by Paul491 Cadrobbi; 10-15-2004 at 04:00 AM.