GeorgeM

Greetings from Stuttgart. For all you PCA members out there, I thought I'd make you aware of an issue going on in your club.

PCA Germany Region is at risk of having their charter revoked by PCA National HQ.

For some reason, the Germany region was excluded from insurance negotiations for this year. As a result, we weren't included in the policy for 2004. We have been unable to come to a resoltion with HQ since then. In the mean time, we have been instructed not to hold any events until the issue is resolved.

The rhetoric has not been pleasant, to the point that our president has stepped down, as will our VP if we can't find a solution soon. Neither of these fine gents is a U.S. citizen, which also seems to be an issue with HQ.

Our website gives a brief rundown of the situation and that's about all I can say without writing a novel. We have made many offers and suggestions to HQ to include paying the difference out of our pockets if required to obtain coverage.

PCA Germany Region

PCA Germany Region has been around for over 40 years. Our membership of 232 folks includes U.S. military and civilian personnel serving in Germany (the population of U.S. citizens in the area surrounding Ramstein AB is 40,000, and that doesn't include the rest of Germany like Army HQ in Heidelberg and the European Command in Stuttgart). Our club experience is also enriched with many english speaking locals and many other folks around Europe. We have a great relationship with Zuffenhausen and the Club relations office there; Alouis Ruf has been a member for over 25 years.

So, if you could drop an email to your Zone rep or friendly National HQ and ask them what's going on with the Germany Region, we'd really appreciate the support.

Thanks,
George

lorenzg

There is very little informative information on the Web site and in your post. What is the 'insurance situation'? I for one can't support a cause without knowing what the cause is. If more information (facts) were made public that might help your request for support. Cheers, Rich

GeorgeM

The problems first began in March of 03 when PCA forgot to include Germany Region during the negotiations with their new insurance underwriter. To make a long story short, our Prez and VP worked very hard and came up with a solution to keep us going. However, in November, the President of PCA told the PCA National Treasurer to withhold payment for insurance in the 2004 season because PCA was considering revoking our charter. His exact words were, “…PCA is continuing to assess the viability of maintaining a region where verifying or obtaining adequate cost effective coverage is a continuing problem.”

Later, PCA National ordered Germany Region not to even hold meetings (even board meetings) until the insurance thing got solved. Here is the quote: “…please remember that the Germany Region cannot run any events or host any meetings or conduct activities of any type until this issue is fully resolved and coverage is in place.”

Since November, our Prez and VP negotiated, suggested and bent over backwards to find a solution, but PCA simply ordered the region to stop holding any events, social and driving – then stopped returning any phone calls, e-mails or inquiries. The suggestions that our Prez and VP made ranged from PCA finding local coverage, us finding local coverage and we even offered for the region to pay the difference in insurance costs.

Since PCA will no longer communicate with any of our region's elected officers and our board is not permitted to meet, we have submitted our intent to file legal action against the PCA Board.

We are fully prepared to retain legal counsel and pursue this as far as necessary in order for our region to live on. It is PCA HQ's responsibility to provide insurance for its regions (PCA By-Laws Article IV Section 7). To collect dues from us and not provide this service is also in violation of by-laws.

This may seen extreme, and my concern was also for our future relationship with PCA HQ. As of right now we have no relationship. This is a desperate act of desperate people who wish for our region to remain alive. We whole-heartedly believe that if we do not take drastic action, the National HQ will not pursue insurance coverage with a good faith effort. We fear that their order for us to not conduct events, social or driving, will never be lifted and the club will be paralyzed until it no longer exists.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Wham:

I've been following this situation with great interest.

We have a superb Zone rep here in the PacNW and I'll send him a note.

Hang in there and stay the course; all chartered regions ought to enjoy the same privileges and benefits.

P.S; Hows the car?

Avenger6

Got the letter from the President and National Headquarters, and it all seems over. They will do a final, binding vote in July, but it appears that PCA Germany is essentially dead!

The issue is that NO insurance company will cover events of any kind help outside of the U.S. This used to be covered here by the fact that events were held on U.S. Installations. Since 1989, there have been major cuts in the number of personnel and bases here in Germany, and therefore some events have been held "Off Base."

We have all been given the option of transferring regions or getting our money back and quitting the club. Since I have been in PCA for 10 years so far, I don't want to quit.

So, region presidents and membership chairmen....Tell me why I should transfer to your region (meaning you get a cut of my dues) and what will you do for a "non-local" member? Who has a good newletter that they mail out? Who has a cool logo with a nice setup of region logo'd goodies in their goodie store?

Help me decide what region to transfer to!!

GeorgeM

I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done, but it does look bleak at this point.

I have also been a member for a while, 12 years now. I don't want my money back either, I'll just transfer back to First Settlers in Virginia I suppose.

Money can buy just about anything, and we've offered to fill the gap out of our pockets... so I have a hard time believing that this issue can't be resolved.

After over 40 years... it's a real shame.

DGaunt

I wrote to Tom Bobbit, and was somewhat gruffly directed to the Zone Rep with an admonishment: "However, I caution you to get the facts from those informed and not rely on web site chat rooms for your facts..."

After speaking to the zone rep (whom I have know for many years)
I can confirm the information contained in this "chat room" is substantially correct.

Several things lept out at me in looking into this:

(1) PCA penchant for secrecy at all levels has reached alarming proportions, and is now seriously detrimental to the club's well-being.

(2) Bobbit's somewhat gruff reply to me was in no way informational, but was patronizing. He failed to respond to a simple request to provide the facts of the matter and his proposed path to rectify it.

(3) PCA's tendency to look down its nose at "chat rooms" such as this proves they are very isolated from the interests of many of their oldest and staunchest members, not to mention a huge pool of possible members. There is a reason so many long time Porsche enthusiasts/owners are congregating here. I feel one reason is that PCA does not provide an atmosphere that encourages open and honest discussion of issues important to us, be it DE safety or Porsche AG/PCNA issues and activities.

I tried to offer my support to the Germany region, and learned a great deal about the mind-set of PCA National in the process. I have no opinion about the viability of insurance as I know little about the mechanics of insurance and less about international insurance. The thing that concerns me most is the allegations of communication being cut off to the executive of the Region. There is simply NO excuse for that, if true. Bobbit skirted that issue by reporting that letters had been sent to all Region Executive and members.

I urge other members to Contact PCA and demand a detailed explanation of the situation and why insurance is impossible. I know there are professionals on this list that will understand and interpret any technical explanation.

Justice must be seen to be done. If societies can be judged on how they treat their weakest members, surely the same standard can be applied here.

mwildt

Hi,

Very sad story to read. I find it very disappointing there can't be found a solution. I mean if the German charter can get their own local insurance for their events why not continue having a German PCA charter. Seems bogus to me. It's not like they haven't been around for 40 years.

PCA is about the people and their enthusiasm for the cars, stupid insurance issues should stop that. Maybe it's time to vote differently when PCA delegates comes up for election.

Michael

rbcsaver

Today, I sent an inquirey to Mr. Bobbitt and CC my Zone Rep. Will wait and see what type of response I get.
regards,
Steve

9caregiver

Greetings,

Why not get a German insurance company to underwrite the German chapter? Since September 11 the insurance industry here has done all it can to raise rates, drop policies and withdraw from certain markets. An insurance company in Germany may be the only choice. Good luck!

Best,

Don

lorenzg

It’s truly a shame that the rank and file of a membership oriented club get treatment like this. I’ve seen it happen over and over again with many of the enthusiast oriented organizations. It seems that they get started by very well intentioned people who want to share their common interests. In the beginning everyone works well together, but then the club gets bigger and membership tends to attract people who have an interest that extends beyond the altruistic reasons for the clubs original formation. For whatever reason the ‘executives’ that evolve over the period of time simply forget the original charter and start to view members as ‘them’ and ‘us’. When management forgets the reason for their existence, most of the members become field hands at the mercy of the masters.

The only way to change the mentality of the organization is to replace the current management with people who are well qualified that have no ulterior motives and a VERY SMALL egos. So the next time you really get upset with the way you are being treated by national or any other member in the management chain, vote them out at the next election. Start a grass roots effort to replace the weeds with flowers. Sorry I couldn’t resist.

I was a member in PCA for 10 years back in the early ‘70s. I left for a number of reasons, but recently re-joined. Other than two very good publications a month, I’ll need some very good reasons to renew my membership again. The web and some very loosely organized local groups can provide me with information and social events. I race in another sanctioning organization. I guess it’s a choice I’ll have to make in short order.
Cheers, Rich

Avenger6

It is my experience with the relationship between our host nation and us is that it is one of mutual tolorance and being ignored. Military people, our families, and the associated civilians are not "officially" in Germany. Our entry into and stay in Germany is covered under the "Status of Forces Agreement" (SOFA) between the two ferderal governments. Complex issues like jurisdiction for crimes and lots of other stuff are covered in this document, but there are lots of holes. In two examples that directly relate to the problem at hand, our driver's licences and license plates are in a strange area between the two systems. Our U.S. driver's licences are valid, and after taking an 8-hour class and a test mostly about signs, we are given a "US Army Europe" driver's license. With the exception of us enthusiast drivers, our skills are no where near what Germans must posses and demonstrate to get their licenses. One upshot from this is that Americans are almost always found to be at fault in any accidents. Same deal with our cars and our plates. We are allowed to bring our big U.S. spec cars here, even though they don't meet the requirements of the TUV inspection. Our annual inspection, conducted on U.S. bases by U.S. employees (some ARE germans though), are no where near as stringent or strict as they are for Germans. In fact, Germans that live near U.S. bases quickly find that they can sell their old cars that won't pass the TUV to soldiers, who can license them and drive them for a few more years. Beats paying the disposal fees that the Germans have to pay to get rid of the old cars!!

So these two issues alone (Less strict drivers license training and testing and less strict vehicle inspections) are enough right there to kill any idea of finding coverage from a German company.

AND, it wouldn't really work out for us to try to join a German Porsche club; their approach is a lot different. First of all, the laws and tax policies make it VERY hard to own and actively drive cars much older than 10 years or so. Taxes, insurance, and inspections get harder and harder, and more and more expensive. So that means that, unlike in PCA, nost members have pretty new cars (and the finances that go with them!) Also, German clubs of any kind have costly and lengthy membership processes. I looked into joining the German club last time I was here. I don't remember the exact details, but you basically had to spend time a lot of as an apprentice member, doing things like being a corner worker and volunteer labor at events for a certain number of hours. (Not bad things in and of themselves, but you don't get to drive in any events during your apprenticeship) It seemed like it would take about 18 months to satisfy that stuff. and THEN, you get to pay the membership fee, which was something like $1000 for initiation and $500 per year. Now, they do some pretty high zoot events, like DE at Hockenheim and Nurbergring sud schleife, but that stuff is very expensive.... Kinda keeps us soldiers and Army civilians out of the game.

Yes, we live in Germany, but even for someone like me, who has been here for a total of 10 years, speaks the language fluently and is even married to a German, it is hard to get accepted into these kinds of things.

So, U.S. insurance seems to be out because we can't/don't do things only on U.S. bases, German insurance is probably not available due to our status, and it is hard and expensive to join a German club. Looks like we are out all around :-(

DGaunt

Lorenzg:

I couldn't have said it better myself. I, too, have seen this hi-jacking of organizations once they have become established enough to offer desirable perks, status, or financial opportunities which attract the wrong kind of people. I was very active in my region until I could no longer ignore what was going on. I hope more people will heed your advice and treat region and national elections as the important process they are, and not a coronation. Of course, the biggest challenge is to try to find people who have the time and desire to give back to an organization. I cannot remember the last time we had too many applicants for Region executive or chairs. Perhaps it is true that the membership gets the leadership it deserves?

JBH

Avenger:

Thank you for the insightful information. Some of this is starting to get clearer. Since the situation you described has existed for many years, I am not sure what exactly happened in 2004 to lose the insurance coverage you had in 2003 and prior years.

According to George's post, PCA forgot to include the German region. As hard as that is to believe, if this problem was precipitated because PCA forgot, then somebody at National needs to stand up, admit the error and be accountable for resolving it.

Can someone please provide the facts?

Clipboard

Lorenzg, Avenger6, et al
I can't agree more with what points both make. I was an SCCA member and official in the 60s and went thru the birth throes of IMSA and went thru the Glory Daze only to see IMSA get &^&^%&'d by some problem-plagued and problematic Tampons with money. I was in at the 79-80 CART revolt out from under USAC's clumsy thumb and look what the monied-ones did to that organization. Now, open-wheel racing is in the dirty hands of Tony George! SCHEISSE!. Of the two main faults with any long-lived, car fan-centric organization, one is that it grows so large that there are no connection to the grassroots any longer - PCA circa 1967 is not today's PCA, for sure; the second is that other "things" come along - in this case other sanctioning bodies to 'run' with and other access to information and camaradrie. BTW, as a long ago USAFE brat, I understand the situation you guys are in over there - ignored over there and forgotten over here.
Good luck - keep your head up.
john