jbdmd

I am thinking of picking up an air cooled 911 and making it into street legal car which will be primarily used for the track.

Is it possible to buy and mod a late 70's to early 90's 911 into a good reliable track car and not break the bank???

I am fairly ignorant of whats out there so I need basic help:

1)How much can I expect to pay for a car which is in good shape and will be durable (unmodified or modified?) $15k $30k? more less?

2)What year and model would you strongly recommend or avoid?

3)Where do you suggest I buy one?

4)How do I get the car checked out before I buy it?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Bill Gregory

Jason,

You might want to read the 911SC FAQ on tech.rennlist.com that talks to some of the mods you can make to a 911SC (78-83) to improve it's performance on the track. This months PCA Panorama has an article on improvements you can make to 964's (89-94) for enhanced performance at the track. Bruce Anderson's book "Porsche 911 Performance Handbook" is a good source of information on modifying 911's, too. In addition, Excellence Magazine is a good source of seeing what others have done.

A pre-purchase inspection (PPI) should always be done. I'm sure others can give you some references in the Phoenix area.

paradisenb

Jason,
When I buy a track car it will most likely be a 87-89 911 Carrera COUPE. Must be a coupe! The reason for these years is the transmission-G50. Very strong, can handle lots of HP.
The other possibility is an early 70s 911 COUPE. These cars weigh, stripped, about 2000 lbs. With a stock or almost stock 3.2 liter engine they fly.
Will not buy a clean car. Don't want to thank I am destroying a classic. Don't want to be concerned about road rash. I will strip everything not absolutely necessary out of the car. Change seats, etc.
Are you a PCA member? You can check if anyone in your local chapter is selling one, also there will be a local race prep/support repair shop that can do the PPI. These guys are usually big Porsche aficionados and will be glad to offer expert advice. Have fun. If you have never owned or driven a Porsche built back when Porsche was building race cars and modifying them for the street, you are in for a thrill or a big let down. These car are raw, driving machines. No power steering, no cup holders.

GrantG

Do yourself a favor and buy a 911 that has already been turned into a "track car". You'll save alot of time and money that way. Rennlist classifieds should have some nice examples (and pca.org) Otherwise, if you just want a project, go for it...

Matt Romanowski

Definatly buy a car that is done. It's cheaper, easier, and you'll be on the track much quicker. Just be careful, many "fully sorted" cars are not what they appear to be.

Matt

OBRUT

A word of caution: make sure you're very clear on what type of events you would like to do with the car - and check their rules for your proposed car's eligibility. Some series, particularly historics, are very specific on what you can and can't do.

agentpennypacker

There's nothing wrong with 915's : ) I've seen a few 400 bhp 930's with them....

I've seen some nice F class race cars in the $20k's, nicely set up. Keep checking with people in the racing forum....

jbdmd

thanks for eveyones help!

i am getting pumped to start looking soon!

I will let you all know what i pick up

any ideas on what i will have to $spend$???

Carrera51

There are two ways to go:

1) Buy a stock car and have your mechanic do all the mods. The upside is that you know exactly how the work was done, you choose what mods to make and the quality of the parts you use. The downside is that it will cost more than option 2.

2) Buy a car that someone else has dumped the money into. A wise man once said that you will be lucky to get $.50 on the dollar when you sell, and that's if it is a winning car. It will still be cheaper even if you have to fix things that were done half assed or incorrectly.

I went with option one, and would lose my shirt if I sold the car, and I still have the big dollar rebuild coming in the future.

JCP911S

JB... ditto above. 78-89 SC/Carrara are extremely reliable under track use, add suspension, brake pads and safety equipment, and you are good to go... the earlier cars while nice to drive... are generally just too old to be reliable unless somebody has done a total rebuild on it

Also how much street driving are you looking at? I drive my race car to the track and it is a major PIA. Generally whats good for the track is bad for the street, and whats better for the track really s**cks on the street.

Some suggestions and opinions FWIW

Somewhere up to High Blue/White DE group you can get away with a performance oriented street car, but then you really have to take the leap...

Either build a nice street car that can be tracked or a nice track car that can be licensed... there is no happy medium... a joint street/track car will just end up being crummy at both.

It costs about as much to tune the street suspension as to build a full race suspension... you are going to replace virtually everyting either way .. don't do it in three steps unless you are rich.

Full track suspensions really hammer the car on potholes etc... sway bars, shocks, even wheels can break from street driving.

Consider a second set of wheels for track tires. Up to high blue group, street tires are ok (and I actually recommend using them for your first 4-8 events)... but driving track tires on the street is terrible... I use really high aspect ratio rim protectors to drive to the track... they provide alot of spring effect and soften the ride.

Really good performance street brake pads are ok for track up almost racing level... but full race pads will frequently kill rotors on the street. If you reach that point, you should change them at the track.

Wearing ear plugs in the car makes street driving more tolerable.

Have fun

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Jason:

This might fly in the face of others on here but I would advise you to buy the car that YOU like and build it up the way you want.

I'm certainly quite sensitive about the costs of doing something, but after seeing so many POS cars come through here that someone paid FAR too much for, I now tell people not to buy someone else's idea of a "performance" car and do this properly the first time for yourself.

Its a real waste of money to pay a premium for some car that is allegedly "done", only to find out that most items will be discarded since they were poor choices...

Do it right and do it yourself.

richard glickel

You've got a lot of good advice here.

Do you have any track experience? Since you express a preference for an air-cooled car, that you can drive on the track AND street, I'd suggest buying a stock '89 930 (911 turbo) or a Carrera (NA). You can expect to pay between $40k - 46k for a good example '89 turbo and between $25k - 30k for a good '89 Carrera. Get a set of 17" wheels and tires for the track and have fun. You can drive to the track and back.

After some DE's, you can decide if you want a track-only dedicated car.

Good luck.

Richard

P.S. As for the car that can be driven on both the track and street, I've got one, but it's not for sale. You can see my car on the thread "let's see your 911".

Elephant Chuck

Start by selecting the club/class you want to participate in. The appropriate car and mods will shake out of the GCRs.

In general if you want to be competitive, you have to do everything allowed in a given class. Other competitors will do everything allowed (and then some).

So start with a class, then build the appropriately.

Juan Lopez

It could make sense to buy someone else's car but like Steve says, there is a lot of cr_p out there.

Buy the best solid chassis you can get (rust is key in early cars and look for crash damage on all years). Decide where you want to go and if you want a track car, a race car or a Street/track car. It sound simple but its not. Then, put your plan on paper and sleep over it. Only then start

I own probably the worlds most expensive 911SC by not planning. I also own one of the worlds most expensive race cars because I bought someone elses "cherry" which turned out to be a piece of junk hole to pour money into it.

Another piece of advice, if you are way in and see no end in sight; walk away, sell and cut your losses short and start again.

I'm a CPA by trade and a racer/enthusiast by heart. THere are some projects that are worth it and others are not.

Another piece of advice, when you figure out what you want, contact a reputable shop and have them do the heavy stuff for you, experience comes cheap in track cars.

If I were to do it again, before I started bolting parts to my car, I would have fully stripped the chassis, powder coated it and then moved on.

Buy good stuff not the catalog stuff. I spent problably 1/2 hour ont eh phone with Steve and learned so much its not funny. Too bad there are so many miles betweeen his shop and my garage.

Doug&Julie

Here's a simple five step process:

Step 1. Buy a clean, but well used "stock" car. Make it safe for the track, but only concentrate on safety at this point.
Step 2. Learn how to drive on the track.
Step 3. Continue to learn how to drive through participation.
Step 4. Keep learning...try to get your skills to the max before "upgrading".
Step 5. Begin gradual modifications according to your driving style.