buying opinion/ppi in brighton, MI
11-25-2003, 08:06 PM
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buying opinion/ppi in brighton, MI
Hey everybody.
I've potentially got a live one here. A few things -
Could anyone take a look at the car for me over the weekend?
Any recomendations for a PPI?
I have 1 big concern and I need some feedback - here are the vitals:
'86 targa 105000 miles. Basically stock, nothing rebuilt. 2nd gear synchro questionable, looks very nice cosmetically. Records available. Asking $15.5k.
The current owner has owned the car since '94 and has only put about 4k miles on it. Oil changes intermittent at best - perhaps 3 or 4 times since he's owned it. How big of a risk factor is this? I'm having trouble quantifying it.
Stef
I've potentially got a live one here. A few things -
Could anyone take a look at the car for me over the weekend?
Any recomendations for a PPI?
I have 1 big concern and I need some feedback - here are the vitals:
'86 targa 105000 miles. Basically stock, nothing rebuilt. 2nd gear synchro questionable, looks very nice cosmetically. Records available. Asking $15.5k.
The current owner has owned the car since '94 and has only put about 4k miles on it. Oil changes intermittent at best - perhaps 3 or 4 times since he's owned it. How big of a risk factor is this? I'm having trouble quantifying it.
Stef
11-26-2003, 07:25 PM
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Stef,
You may want to do a search for Michigan PPI’s or Michigan mechanics, you may be able to find what you need.
I was up there for a DE earlier this year and had Munks Motors in Waterford do the tech inspection on my 911. They couldn’t have been more helpful and know 911’s inside and out. It may be a drive for the current owner (maybe 45 mins.), but you’ll have caring hands touching the car at all times.
Here’s their website
MUNKS MOTORS
Good luck,
Bryan
You may want to do a search for Michigan PPI’s or Michigan mechanics, you may be able to find what you need.
I was up there for a DE earlier this year and had Munks Motors in Waterford do the tech inspection on my 911. They couldn’t have been more helpful and know 911’s inside and out. It may be a drive for the current owner (maybe 45 mins.), but you’ll have caring hands touching the car at all times.
Here’s their website
MUNKS MOTORS
Good luck,
Bryan
11-28-2003, 08:30 PM
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PPI MICHIGAN
Karl Heinz Auto Center in Royal Oak, Worked on Porsche for over 25 years, stopped a few years ago to focus on BMW and Benzes , did my PPI (not sure if it was a favor) since he has serviced my Benzes for many years. Great guy if you can have him look at it.
11-29-2003, 12:17 AM
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Bill Cook Porsche/Audi is closer to Brighton than Heinz. Was in Heinz about a month ago, didnt see any P cars...didnt see anybody at all....walked in looked around, twittled thumbs and walked out.
There is also a P dealer in Ann Arbor, I think.
Good luck.
There is also a P dealer in Ann Arbor, I think.
Good luck.
11-30-2003, 08:19 PM
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Stef,
I am going to tell you what I tell most people who are looking to buy a Porsche. If there is something that just doesn't seem right, walk away. If oil is left in a car to long it becomes acidic and that can be very harmful to a car. The price is about right for that year and model. Targa's are nice but are not getting as much on the market these days. Still have the car looked at by someone with a good reputation with Porsches. Best of luck Stef! - Jay Gratton
I am going to tell you what I tell most people who are looking to buy a Porsche. If there is something that just doesn't seem right, walk away. If oil is left in a car to long it becomes acidic and that can be very harmful to a car. The price is about right for that year and model. Targa's are nice but are not getting as much on the market these days. Still have the car looked at by someone with a good reputation with Porsches. Best of luck Stef! - Jay Gratton
12-01-2003, 08:47 AM
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Jay,
I know. It's tricky though to remain unemotional, since the 911 purchase, by definition, is purely emotional!
Anyhow, I offered him $12k (pending PPI) to account for risk factor, no AC, old tires. Haven't heard back, so I guess it's become moot.
Stef
I know. It's tricky though to remain unemotional, since the 911 purchase, by definition, is purely emotional!
Anyhow, I offered him $12k (pending PPI) to account for risk factor, no AC, old tires. Haven't heard back, so I guess it's become moot.
Stef
12-01-2003, 10:37 AM
#7
Jay,
Interesting comment on the oil. I've spoken with several mechanics about oil being left in vehicles for extended periods of time and not one has ever said that would be a problem. I was looking at a '78 SC a while back with under 30K miles on it. The only problem was that it had been in a garage and not started in over 18 years. The car had not been prepared properly for this kind of storage (so I offered him $8K for the car, he sold it for 10K). I spoke with three different highly regarded P-car mechanics including the SC/Carrera specialist at the Porsche Service Center, and every one told me the oil would not be an issue, however the fuel system would. All told me that oil will remain stable over time. Was just curious about your comment. Could you expand on it a bit?
Interesting comment on the oil. I've spoken with several mechanics about oil being left in vehicles for extended periods of time and not one has ever said that would be a problem. I was looking at a '78 SC a while back with under 30K miles on it. The only problem was that it had been in a garage and not started in over 18 years. The car had not been prepared properly for this kind of storage (so I offered him $8K for the car, he sold it for 10K). I spoke with three different highly regarded P-car mechanics including the SC/Carrera specialist at the Porsche Service Center, and every one told me the oil would not be an issue, however the fuel system would. All told me that oil will remain stable over time. Was just curious about your comment. Could you expand on it a bit?
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12-01-2003, 10:57 AM
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In my research I came across this from Bruce Anderson, page 117:
"There are other conditions that can cause the top-end life to vary, such as cars that are driven infrequently. When the engines sits idle, the moisture and acids will corrode the engine's internal components. The only way to avoid this corrosion is to drive the car frequently so the engine heat will dry out the moisture. Frequent oil changes will also prolong the life of an engine that is not used as often as it should be. Regular operation also helps keep the rings free and will help avoid carbon buildupon the piston and combustion chamber. When an engine sits, the moisture will soften the carbon buildup and pieces of carbon can get caught between the valve and the valve seat, which can cause a burnt valve."
"There are other conditions that can cause the top-end life to vary, such as cars that are driven infrequently. When the engines sits idle, the moisture and acids will corrode the engine's internal components. The only way to avoid this corrosion is to drive the car frequently so the engine heat will dry out the moisture. Frequent oil changes will also prolong the life of an engine that is not used as often as it should be. Regular operation also helps keep the rings free and will help avoid carbon buildupon the piston and combustion chamber. When an engine sits, the moisture will soften the carbon buildup and pieces of carbon can get caught between the valve and the valve seat, which can cause a burnt valve."
12-01-2003, 11:17 AM
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Jim,
The information that was given by Stef from Bruce Anderson is what I was refereing too. As far as the car you looked at that sat for 18 years, I too would have been more concerned with the gas in the tank. Your car just sat and so did the oil. As with Stef's car it was started driven a little and shut down and that is not a good practice for a car that does not receive frequent oil changes. Hope that clears things up for you.
Regards - Jay Gratton
The information that was given by Stef from Bruce Anderson is what I was refereing too. As far as the car you looked at that sat for 18 years, I too would have been more concerned with the gas in the tank. Your car just sat and so did the oil. As with Stef's car it was started driven a little and shut down and that is not a good practice for a car that does not receive frequent oil changes. Hope that clears things up for you.
Regards - Jay Gratton
12-01-2003, 11:44 AM
#10
Jay/Stef Thanks!
I was just curious. I know about the moisture issue. I guess this is where I am a bit confused (well I'm generally confused about more than this :-) ). If you drive at operating temp., then shut down the car, would not all the moisture be evaporated due to the heat or is more moisture created? If more moisture is created, then the assumption would be there is always moisture in the system. I'm simply trying to understand and not be a pain. I also have the Bruce Anderson manual and looked-up the quote referenced by Stef. I read the book cover to cover when I was looking at the 78SC. It would be interesting to track down the guy who bought the car I was looking at to see what problems he encountered with the car in order to get back running.
Thanks again!
I was just curious. I know about the moisture issue. I guess this is where I am a bit confused (well I'm generally confused about more than this :-) ). If you drive at operating temp., then shut down the car, would not all the moisture be evaporated due to the heat or is more moisture created? If more moisture is created, then the assumption would be there is always moisture in the system. I'm simply trying to understand and not be a pain. I also have the Bruce Anderson manual and looked-up the quote referenced by Stef. I read the book cover to cover when I was looking at the 78SC. It would be interesting to track down the guy who bought the car I was looking at to see what problems he encountered with the car in order to get back running.
Thanks again!