Mudflaps

Hi,

Long time lurker, market monitor, and prospective P-car owner. I am at a point where I haven't had a fun car in a while and I am torn about what to get.

Stats: Previous cars include 4 - e30's (1 was s50 swapped), e36 M52 turbo. Loved how analog the e30s were, miss my s50 car. Current daily is a crew cab Duramax which I could take or leave it. Its loud, clunky, does only a few things well, etc.

Anyhow, I am torn between a 996tt and a 78-98 aircooled car and budget is sub 50k. I am only interested in coupe, manual cars. I have driven a 996tt once, actually a car for sale right now in Ohio, but that particular car wasn't for me. The concept of the 996tt did grow on me though. I have driven an aircooled car once as a valet a long time ago, so not enough seat time to make a determination. In Columbus, OH there is nothing for sale, so I am relegated to a fly/drive situation. My biggest fear is I settle on an aircooled car, fly there, and I hate it. One thing that concerns me which may be completely stupid, is the shifter on the earlier aircooleds looks very long. How well do these actually shift?

Has anyone owned both and have any suggestions? This would be probably be a split time daily driver spring thru fall, and garaged in the winter. Again I liked the analog, raw feel of the e30s. I don't need AC, I barely need a radio. I would be doing pretty much all my own maintenance. Driving the hell out of the car is something I would do, but I am also concerned about resale, and this is a double edged sword.

This has probably turned into a ramble, more than a cohesive, coherent post. But TL;DR 996tt vs Aircooled 911 for a semi-daily.

911Dave

The air cooled cars don't shift like a modern car. The 996 does. The water cooled shifters are short and you can shift with little more than wrist movement. With the air cooled, you have to move your whole arm. Everything about the air cooled cars requires more attention and effort than more modern cars. That's part of their charm.

There's only one way for you to know which is right - drive both. The newer they are, the easier they are to drive...and the less fun, IMO.

The 996tt will also be far more difficult to work on yourself, and more expensive if you pay someone else.

Edward

Well it really depends on you as to how "analog" you want your semi-daily to be.

Budget: for sub-50k, you're looking at:
1. pristine 78-89 SC or Carrera. The 78-83 SCs are 3.0 engines and a good example at the get-go will be bombproof. 84+ Carrera gets you a 3.2 with motronic (nicer than CIS), and 85+ gets you a G50 trans which shifts more like a modern gearbox. Nuttin wrong with the older 915 trans, but it really is more for those who at ok (or embrace) the old, long-throw boxes of yesteryear. There are plenty in great shape, and plenty that are horrid: like so much, it depends on what the owner has/not done. HVAC will be critical as AC is marginal when working properly (IMHO), but a few folks have upgraded their AC to blow cold like a modern (normal!!) system, while many simply live with it (depending on their climate) or rip all of it out altogether and enjoy the weight savings (I'm the latter).

2. 964 (90-94) or 993 (95-98). The 964 is polarizing for many folks, but I dig em! Look at them and you'll see what I'm talking about, but still a wonderful "old 911" feel with welcome updates, particularly in comfort matters such as NVH and HVAC. The 993 in your price range will limit you to higher-mile cars, but that's not a detraction, IMHO. Killer aircooled experience ...but I am heavily biased

3. 996TT (and the GT3) are the only 996 variants I'd personally even think of owning as those engines do not suffer the dreaded IMS issues that plagued innumerable cars of that ilk (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). Definitely feel more "contemporary" and "normal" in terms of interior and driver amenities, but that's either a plus or minus depending on what you really want. And if it's the "aircooled mystique" that you really want, then you're done there.

Bottom line is you need to do some serious reading up, understand what each year "series" brings to the table, and weigh it all with what you want as a semi-daily with analog feel-goods. Then you must drive them --and good examples or it's a meaningless comparison-- as zero net-pinions will ever answer what works for you, not to mention will save you time and money in looking! Perhaps look at models priced beyond your budget to get a good seat-of-the-pants feel for what a good car of that series should feel like.

I'll leave the "resale value" question to those more knowledgeable, but IMHO you're better off getting the right car for you as no one really can predict what the market will look like beyond their mere opinion and armchair prognostication (unless you are one of those who consistently predict the bull over the bear ).

Edward

Pep!RRRR

Check your local PCA chapter and you may find a lot of good info, and perhaps even some cars for sale.

^G50 came along in '87, not '85.

Edward

Thanks for the correction, Pep!

Edward

Amber Gramps

As big a fan as I am of the air-cooled cars I wouldn't consider anything older than a 964 to be a daily driver. The old girls require effort and attention to drive.....

BTW, my car came from Upper Arlington, Ohio.

Scott Lenger

If it's a raw, fun, engaged driving experience you seek then the 911 Carrera / 911SC is hard to beat. They lack the creature comforts like decent AC but no ABS and no power steering really make the driving experience very tactile and engaging. I drove mine almost daily for a number of years - it was my morning thrill and solace on my short commute home. Maintenance and repairs are actually fairly reasonable if you start with a well-maintained example.

The 993 is the pinnacle of air-cooled with just enough creature comforts to really be a daily machine yet preserve enough of the raw spirit of the older cars......and their market price today reflects this.

At $50K you're in range I think for a 997 which would be a great daily driver....But is an entirely different era car.

I'd not bee too concerned with miles - Porsches are designed for longevity (with proper maintenance). You'll have to do some driving to see what best fits your style.

grgallo

drive them both as has been noted above, see which one for you is the best driving experience, I've owned E30's and loved them and miss them except now as an owner of an '87 911 Coupe I get the raw exciting driving experience that I love, for me it is kicked up several notches from the E30. And I also don't use AC or the radio, the engine/mechanicals/etc. are all the music I need. My 911 came from Powell, Ohio

tcsracing1

find a 993.

The best and easiest air cooled 911 to live with.

If you do not like it then you are not a driver.

Sonoma707

Apples & oranges. I have both, an '84 Coupe all original, short shifter, all black, and an '04 996 Cab., stock except for Fister mod and refreshed suspension w/ M030, which lowered car a little but toatally made car handle better.
I love the 996 for it's simplicity for a water cooled compared to everything that has followed, GT3's the exception. I have base model, no psm, just a basic car. It has good power, handles terrifically, looks great, it is a Porsche!, and relatively inexpensive in the Porsche culture. In this sense the 996tt can be a great purchase. It's a car you'll enjoying to drive for its power and handling characteristics.
Air cooled 911's are a totally different beast. Mine is an '84 Coupe, 95k miles, bought from original owner. Car completely stock, except for 930 shifter, which was a factory option. The motor is strong and pulls well, the shifter, 915, had a very long throw and somewhat loose, adding the short shifter a good improvement, while still stock. No power steering, no abs, a/c barely works, so don't use it, no automatic lights or door locks. But, this car is so much fun to drive. Because of its basic nature it's a car you have to pay attention and drive. The steering causes you to set up more intently and precise to get best handling. 35 year old transmission technology doesn't allow for quick shifts that you get in the 996, same for the power of the 3.2.
So, imho, if you want a car that is fast, handles terrifically, and can be pushed all day, then the 996tt is a great choice.
If, on the other hand, you want the old school sports car experience, the air cooled models see perfect.
I'm fortunate enough to have 1 of each and can enjoy the unique driving experience each model provides.

mk85911

Tough call, but since you will not be using it as a daily driver, I would lean toward the air cooled, and I base that on my own experience.

I purchased a 2011 997.2 a little over six years ago, but I also owned a 1985 Carrera which I had owned since new. I was going to sell my 85, and I'm so glad I didn't.

Anyway, the first year I owned the 997, I put about twice the miles on it as the 1985; the next year it was 60-40 in favor of the 997, and it is now more or less even. This is not a knock on the 997--I love it. But if I'm by myself, and if it's not super hot, I seem to always go for the air cooled.

That said, I've owned air cooled 911's continuously for over forty years, so maybe I'm desensitized to what many might consider a less refined driving experience.

Sonoma has the answer: you need both. Get one of them now, and get the other later. Mike

Mudflaps

Thanks for all the replies. Puts things into perspective. I think the "get one now, but obtain both later" option will ultimately win out. Can never have too many!

911Dave

I recommend you get the air cooled now. They'll be more expensive later, while the water cooled ones will continue to depreciate. You'll be financially better off if you go air cooled at the outset.

Hron13

Go aircooled man, you won't regret it. I daily drive my targa and it's a living dream. These cars are very livable day to day as long as you are used to older cars. My ac is non functional but with the windows down and the top off it's great in all but the hottest weather, and with the top on it's not too bad either.

blockhed

daily driver tough to beat 996tt for reliability, comfort, speed etc but aircooled cars are pretty amazing