911Dave

What are we going for here? Engine sounds from inside the cockpit, or exhaust sounds outside? They are ENTIRELY different things. What is the purpose of this thread?

spreeleon

mainly wondering about the sound while in the car and carving up windy roads. Are air cooled ones that much louder and better sounding while in cockpit??

Dave Inc.

Louder yes, there's significantly less sound insulation in the old cars. Better? Subjective, but for the mechanically inclined it's a joy to hear all the little bits and pieces clacking along behind you.

sjgreco

It depends on the car in my opinion. When I took my 08 GT3RS for a drive, I would take a long sweeping curve at about 80MPH. A friend that lives about a 1/2 mile from the highway would always know when I drove the car.

911Dave

The engine sounds are louder, but what you hear from the exhaust (inside the car) depends on the exhaust.

Check out the list of cars I've owned in my signature. I ordered my 997 Carrera S with Porsche Sport Exhaust (PSE) and it screamed like a banshee on hard acceleration but was relatively quiet otherwise. A stock exhaust would have been quieter still. There are lots of choices for exhaust for water cooled cars and they all have different sounds and volumes.

The most incredible inside-the-car exhaust note I've ever had was a Fister Stage 3 exhaust on my 993 C4S. When I think of that car, the first thing that comes to mind is how it sounded.

I had a GHL muffler and sport cat on one of my '86's and it sounded fantastic, but it drowned out the fan whine, which I adore.

Lots of choices in exhaust for air cooled cars too. Again all my comments above are about what you hear INSIDE the car.

But here's the bottom line: If we're just talking about stock engines and exhausts, the older the car, the louder it will be. Special water cooled variants like GT3 are exceptions to that rule, but they're meant to be. Whether or not you prefer the sound of air cooled cars or water cooled is entirely up to you. You asked your question in the air cooled forum, so it should come as no surprise that most respondents are going to vote air cooled cars.

After having been around the block in both air cooled varieties and a 997 with a variety of exhausts and engines, my preference above all the rest is a bone stock 3.2 Carrera.

n8kruger

The cockpit experience isn't just about the sound but the vibrations from the whole car. We have had our 86 Targa for the past 26 years and two years ago I got a 991 to take over the daily driver role. The newer car feels sort of like getting into any newer car with little NVH. But, porsche tuned both the exhaust and the intake to make wonderful noises when you get on it. I will never get sick of living in Connecticut as long as they keep these ultra short on ramps to the Merritt Parkway. I can just about wind it up to redline most of the way through three gears and the noise is intoxicating and addictive.

The older car has all these wonderful noises that make you feel like you're doing something really special when you just get in it and fired up. There's what seem like a dozen different parts that resonate at different engine speeds but all come to harmony together above 5000 RPM. I always thought most of the music in the stock set up was from the chain driven cams. You don't get that with the water cooled design's inherent insulation. You feel it in the seat cushion. There's a whole lot going on back there!

When we got the 86, the previous owner had a car phone installed. I think it's funny now because I can't imagine anybody could carry on a reasonable conversation, But with all the good music who would want to?

Texas RS

This is a 'slightly' modded naturally aspirated air cooled engine.

Warning may cause swelling.

BTW, I much prefer the sound of my air cooled engine over my '11 3.8 GT3RS with race exhaust, neither will make sound limits in California but the 993 sounds so sweet and revs so freely...pure sex.

spreeleon

Thank you all for the input and insight. My dilema is i have a 996 c4s with pse and ive been getting the itch to sell it and get into an older SC. The issue is that all the times ive gone to cars and coffees and listened to people start up and rev the engines on the 80s 911s they all sounded fairly tame to me from the outise and sitting in the car. I had a quick drive in an SC one time and i didnt quite hear that much engine and/or exhaust music. I thought my c4s was louder and had a more aggressive sound when i revved it. It may very well have been just that SC. Hard to tell and its hard to test drive an older 911 as most cars i am looking ar are online. Anyhow really just trying to get a poll of what it is exactly that people often talk about in terms of the air cooled sounds and it looks like its more havjng to do with the engine sounds than the exhausts.

Amber Gramps

The air-cooled sound is that symphony described above. Porsche did everything they could to insulate the original owners from that sound. Firewall sound pad, back seat sound pad, footwell adhesive pads, carpet mats, liberal seam seal, back seats, heavy carpet padding, heavy plush carpet, padded door cards, padded trim, padded footwell blowers covers, giant muffler, long twisting airbox snorkel, and more. Delete all that crap and that symphony is in your face. Even the cat deadens the sounds......even the Recaro seats are guilty of intentionally drowning out the sounds of the road

Edit: Porsche went so far as to put rubber links in the tie-rods of the narrow-bodied cars.

mk85911

My experience is similar to 911DAVE a few posts back; I own a 997.2 with PSE and a 3.2, and I personally think the 3.2 has a "special" sound. This is not a knock on the 997, because I also love its sound at WOT, which seems to incorporate more induction sound, which I like.

The 3.2 is more complex, and I've been listening to this one since new, and it's always a thrill.

Edit: before I ordered my 2011 997.2 , I test drove a 2010 997.2, and I thought the induction sound on the 2010 was a bit louder. A few months had passed before delivery, so I couldn't rely on my memory completely, but I did check with the parts department to see if there had been a change in the intake equipment, and I was told that both years were identical. Both cars were identical in all relevant aspects except that the 2010 I test drove had the standard radio, whereas I ordered my 2011 with the Boise sound system, which I believe has more electronics packed into the area in back of the rear seats, and thus attenuated the engine sound a bit. This is just a theory of mine, and it relies upon a set of ears that are a bit older than I like to admit. Mike

JCGMS

I'm a newbie to the air cooled world so I'm not sure what all the specific sounds are but the the fan whine as heard from the inside is glorious!

Exhaust-wise I have to say I like my 997.1 with gundo hack better, particularly the gurgles and pops on cold start and lift.

Mike Murphy

Here's a video from inside my liquid cooled 996 on the track from Monday:
The sound of the Cayman in front of me is intoxicating...

There is no question in my mind that most stock and base model 911s are not loud. They are too quiet for my tastes. Porsche does this on purpose so that 911s retain that street-ability meets luxury, but without performance impacts. Listen to brand-new 991.2 Turbo S sprint from 0-60 in 2.x seconds and it's a silent rocketship. British Top Gear Folks who tested the then-new Panamera also complained this car was too quiet. You gotta love it when Porsche creates an option (Porsche Sport Exhaust) for those who want to decide if they want quiet or louder (I don't think there is a performance different between quiet or louder, but rather, it was done for audio pleasure).

However, as cars age, they get louder and louder, particularly the air-cooled examples, but it can happen as mufflers age, too.

Regardless, there are a lot of ways to screw up the flat-6 sound, and different mufflers and intakes create different sound characteristics. There are also glorious examples of something done well - a set of Fabspeed 200 cell cats is one example.

Mike Murphy

Here's another 996 with those Fabspeed 200 cats...

rusnak

There is a book about the 911 engine, called Porsche 911 Engine History and Development. I think the author is Tobias Aichelle or something like that. I'd have to go look for it, so don't quote me there.

Anyway, he mentions that when Porsche developed the 3.2, they were trying to design the intake so that at high rpm, it would act as a "ram", or an air compressor. Porsche was getting more volume of air than the cylinders would hold at normal atmosphere bar. He also wrote that the 3.2 was at the time of introduction, the highest specific output motor of any production vehicle on the market, at least the Euro version was. This was all before Varioram and the like. It was Bosch and Porsche's first attempt at combining engine management into one ECU.

Amber Gramps

^^^^ I've also seen reports that show wildly differing flow rates across the 3,2 manifold. I've seen it cut and welded shorter by a couple inches and seen rave reviews of the results of extrude-honing. Steve Wong sells a throttle body that is 10% larger in diameter........and plug modern injectors I to it and BOOM it's a whole new world.