How to fix the 718 RS wheels bouncing?
04-01-2024, 04:28 AM
#107
Race Car
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Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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If the suspension was perfect in the 4RS or SRS that would create a hierarchy issue within Porsche. That was never going to happen and that’s the Achilles heal of the GT4RS vs the GT3 by design or lack of design. For those that seem to really care it certainly can be improved with some money as others have graciously put in the time, effort and money to report back on. I for one will never get to the level that the 4RS is the limiting factor in track times, it will always be my skill vs what the car is capable of.
because 991.1 RS hierarchy
Seriously the aim of this thread is to share some ideas/experiences in modifying the (beloved) car setup, its not a 718 Vs 992 battle, one could love the analog/old school personality as it is, others could like, at extreme driving on undulations, to avoid something like this "my suspension wasn't designed for that...."
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3oiiTGrhJl/?igsh=MXdndWZpbXZvdDd2eA==[\url]
hope this save some RL community ***...
Last edited by fxz; 04-01-2024 at 08:24 AM.
04-01-2024, 07:15 AM
#108
Hierarchy is right.
Interestingly, there is one tuner in the USA of whom I have heard who converted the 981 GT4 rear suspension to a multilink setup. (A simple Google search returns the result of the tuner.) They utilized their own car and developed the modification after hundreds of hours of track testing over the course of a year. There is no such modification available for 981 Spyder or for 718-anything, but these would be oh-so-cool.
I do wonder if a modification to a true multilink rear setup on 718 GT cars would greatly improve things. It would take lots of research and development, but the old fashioned strut design seems to be a hindrance to optimal performance of the platform.
Interestingly, there is one tuner in the USA of whom I have heard who converted the 981 GT4 rear suspension to a multilink setup. (A simple Google search returns the result of the tuner.) They utilized their own car and developed the modification after hundreds of hours of track testing over the course of a year. There is no such modification available for 981 Spyder or for 718-anything, but these would be oh-so-cool.
I do wonder if a modification to a true multilink rear setup on 718 GT cars would greatly improve things. It would take lots of research and development, but the old fashioned strut design seems to be a hindrance to optimal performance of the platform.
04-01-2024, 09:17 AM
#109
Burning Brakes
04-01-2024, 09:58 AM
#110
Shop in the UK that helped develop the installation of the kit and worked closely with Autoquest are picking up the project. They successfully installed on a UK car back in period. I believe the shots on website might even be from that car… the kit required some ‘massaging’ to actually make it work.
Unfortunately that car was written off by another shop.
So now they have recently acquired a GT4 with the specific purpose of exploring viability of making the kit available mass market.
Unfortunately that car was written off by another shop.
So now they have recently acquired a GT4 with the specific purpose of exploring viability of making the kit available mass market.
Last edited by TDT; 04-01-2024 at 10:19 AM.
04-01-2024, 10:08 AM
#111
Burning Brakes
When I spoke with Autoquest recently, very nice and candid people (in Florida), I did not obtain the sense that a project for 718-anything would be in the cards. Is the UK shop planning to undertake the development within the confines of the UK?
I didn’t know the collaboration was between shops on both sides of the pond — wow. That’s some interesting coordination.
04-01-2024, 10:44 AM
#112
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Hierarchy is right.
Interestingly, there is one tuner in the USA of whom I have heard who converted the 981 GT4 rear suspension to a multilink setup. (A simple Google search returns the result of the tuner.) They utilized their own car and developed the modification after hundreds of hours of track testing over the course of a year. There is no such modification available for 981 Spyder or for 718-anything, but these would be oh-so-cool.
I do wonder if a modification to a true multilink rear setup on 718 GT cars would greatly improve things. It would take lots of research and development, but the old fashioned strut design seems to be a hindrance to optimal performance of the platform.
Interestingly, there is one tuner in the USA of whom I have heard who converted the 981 GT4 rear suspension to a multilink setup. (A simple Google search returns the result of the tuner.) They utilized their own car and developed the modification after hundreds of hours of track testing over the course of a year. There is no such modification available for 981 Spyder or for 718-anything, but these would be oh-so-cool.
I do wonder if a modification to a true multilink rear setup on 718 GT cars would greatly improve things. It would take lots of research and development, but the old fashioned strut design seems to be a hindrance to optimal performance of the platform.
Last edited by wizee; 04-01-2024 at 11:57 AM.
04-01-2024, 10:49 AM
#113
Burning Brakes
I have to imagine the spring rates and geometry are different between 981 and 982 GT4, no?
04-01-2024, 10:59 AM
#114
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This is a great post, thank you.
I have read and attempted to digest all the explanations here but I continue to have concrete in my head about understanding the following:
Why should the handling of a car like a 718 GT4 RS (or Spyder RS), or 718 Spyder/GT4, be more unstable around tight corners on public roads with elevation changes/bumps than let’s say a 718 Boxster GTS or dare I say 981 Spyder?
In another thread I mentioned that I test drove THREE 718s Spyder; and I came away dumbfounded as to why the car would lose grip around tight corners on public back roads or yield-sign 90-degree turns; it was unbecoming, weird, unexpected, and not fun. One of the test drives was in a friend’s car where I was driving on back roads for 30 minutes with all kinds of conditions in dry, early summer weather. I am convinced that my 981 Spyder stays glued to the road better than 718 Spyder, and especially at the limit. I was flamed for saying this and basically told I didn’t know what I was talking about, even though I do know what I’m talking about. And I don’t need to discuss tire pressures and tires because I have those variables covered as well. Above in this thread, I mentioned this phenomenon and I was told my observation about 718 Spyder was correct; and informed comments in this thread seem to corroborate this phenomenon.
But I am just not understanding how a car that so much more capable — 718 GT4/Spyder or 718 RS — could be inferior in this way to non-GT variants of 718 or 981. What exactly is the planned tradeoff here in the design of the GT/RS car’s suspension, and why does the tradeoff need to exist?
Wondering if you and/or an others can comment further?
I have read and attempted to digest all the explanations here but I continue to have concrete in my head about understanding the following:
Why should the handling of a car like a 718 GT4 RS (or Spyder RS), or 718 Spyder/GT4, be more unstable around tight corners on public roads with elevation changes/bumps than let’s say a 718 Boxster GTS or dare I say 981 Spyder?
In another thread I mentioned that I test drove THREE 718s Spyder; and I came away dumbfounded as to why the car would lose grip around tight corners on public back roads or yield-sign 90-degree turns; it was unbecoming, weird, unexpected, and not fun. One of the test drives was in a friend’s car where I was driving on back roads for 30 minutes with all kinds of conditions in dry, early summer weather. I am convinced that my 981 Spyder stays glued to the road better than 718 Spyder, and especially at the limit. I was flamed for saying this and basically told I didn’t know what I was talking about, even though I do know what I’m talking about. And I don’t need to discuss tire pressures and tires because I have those variables covered as well. Above in this thread, I mentioned this phenomenon and I was told my observation about 718 Spyder was correct; and informed comments in this thread seem to corroborate this phenomenon.
But I am just not understanding how a car that so much more capable — 718 GT4/Spyder or 718 RS — could be inferior in this way to non-GT variants of 718 or 981. What exactly is the planned tradeoff here in the design of the GT/RS car’s suspension, and why does the tradeoff need to exist?
Wondering if you and/or an others can comment further?
My Spyder feels quite well damped, compliant but also well controlled in body movements, and it handles mid-corner bumps quite well for its level of firmness and suspension travel. I can consistently take my Spyder faster through the same street corners than my old 987 base or the 981 S and base I’ve driven on the same roads. I also feel my Spyder is the best car I’ve driven when it comes to communicating what the chassis is doing to my butt, while at the same time being compliant over bumpier segments. My Spyder also feels considerably more composed over the same roads than the AMG GT S I used to own (that also happened to be double wishbone front and rear).
I’m not saying its suspension is perfect, but it honestly feels very good to me and a lot of others here too. I wonder why there is such a big disparity of experiences. I remember a while back @Racer20 said that he suspected some of the variable damper valves were getting stuck on his car, and that when they weren’t stuck the damping felt felt good, but when they got stuck it felt wrong and unsettled.
Last edited by wizee; 04-01-2024 at 11:03 AM.
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04-01-2024, 11:01 AM
#115
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981 GT4 had PASM, the 981 Spyder didn’t.
EDIT: I just checked the dampers on my 718 Spyder, they're the same part numbers as the 981 and 982 GT4. So differences in damping between the GT4 and Spyder are just in PASM software/calibration.
Last edited by wizee; 04-01-2024 at 12:00 PM.
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04-01-2024, 11:07 AM
#116
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04-01-2024, 11:17 AM
#117
Burning Brakes
Last edited by 348SStb; 04-01-2024 at 11:20 AM.
04-01-2024, 11:39 AM
#118
All the rates including the rear helper are the same between GT4 generations. Changes are in PASM program and any actual body-in-white structural changes from 981 to 982(718)
It’s obviously different for 4RS wrt to spring damper rates and 991 4S front section.
It’s obviously different for 4RS wrt to spring damper rates and 991 4S front section.
04-01-2024, 11:40 AM
#119
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04-01-2024, 02:12 PM
#120
Burning Brakes
Hi West I believe you and I have been through this on other threads and our experiences just aren’t the same… I am aware of your explanation.