Notices
718 GTS 4.0/GT4/GT4RS/Spyder/25th Anniversary Discussions about the 718 version of the GT4RS, GTS 4.0, GT4, Spyder and 25th Anniversary Boxster
Sponsored By:
Sponsored By: Cobb

Oil Change on GT4RS

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-24-2023 | 01:25 AM
  #31  
PistolPete's Avatar
PistolPete
Drifting
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,432
Likes: 124
From: New York, NY
Default

Originally Posted by matttheboatman
Checking with Suncoast parts now to see if they sent me the wrong plug.

This simple DIY has turned more complex, particularly after reading about the issue discovered on the GT3s 4.0 ltr engines (same as GT4RS) of the brass insert in the carbon fiber sump oil tank being stripped while loosening when the engine is hot. Good grief! I just want to change my oil, how difficult can that be? Apparently, more difficult than I could have imagined. So here I am in the process...

1. Need to confirm the correct plug was sent to me. And, if as I suspect it is the wrong part, get the proper sealing plug and associated new tool. Then,
2. Need to bring the car to the Porsche dealer, let it sit overnight so it cools to ambient temperature as prescribed for loosening the oil tank drain plug.
3. Have them put the car on the lift, have the P-tech loosen the oil tank plug so if it strips, its on them, not on me, then proceed.

More to follow ....
Stripping that plug is no joke unfortunately. This happened to an early 992 GT3 owner that I know and fortunately it was at the dealership for the first annual change. What gets loose is actually the metal insert they use for the tank drain plug area because the rest of the tank I believe is some sort of composite material.

Anyway, to replace this tank was a complete engine out operation at the dealership, not an inexpensive repair.

My understanding is that the drain plug gasket has been updated with a thinner diameter to not "grab" the insert as much when attempting to loosen.

EDIT: I see you've found the GT3 TSB.

Last edited by PistolPete; 01-24-2023 at 01:27 AM.
Old 01-24-2023 | 01:35 AM
  #32  
GrantG's Avatar
GrantG
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,329
Likes: 5,266
From: Denver
Default

Originally Posted by PistolPete
Stripping that plug is no joke unfortunately. This happened to an early 992 GT3 owner that I know and fortunately it was at the dealership for the first annual change. What gets loose is actually the metal insert they use for the tank drain plug area because the rest of the tank I believe is some sort of composite material.

Anyway, to replace this tank was a complete engine out operation at the dealership, not an inexpensive repair.

My understanding is that the drain plug gasket has been updated with a thinner diameter to not "grab" the insert as much when attempting to loosen.

EDIT: I see you've found the GT3 TSB.
This is a known issue on the GT3 and the repair should be covered under warranty (whether oil change at dealer or DIY). However, don’t think this is an issue with GT4 RS, as I think it’s only been built with newer versions of both tank and drain plug.
The following 2 users liked this post by GrantG:
pfbz (01-24-2023), PistolPete (01-24-2023)
Old 01-24-2023 | 02:21 PM
  #33  
matttheboatman's Avatar
matttheboatman
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 620
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by GrantG
Agree that doesn’t look correct. Should have M9 XZN triple-square
Spoke with Suncoast today. They did send the incorrect part. The part number is the same, but this is what the replacement plug should look like. And, yes, as you suspected, will require an M9 XZN tripple-square tool, stubby to fit between the oil pan and the cross member.



The following 2 users liked this post by matttheboatman:
GrantG (01-24-2023), HooosierDaddy (01-24-2023)
Old 01-25-2023 | 10:36 PM
  #34  
matttheboatman's Avatar
matttheboatman
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 620
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by GrantG
I think the GT4 RS production falls after the date range of concern (with respect to the tank drain coming loose).
Yes, it would make sense that Porsche would fix this on the newer 2023s after discovering the issue.

Nevertheless, I will make it a best practice to loosen the oil tank drain plug when cold just to be on the safe side. I spoke with the dealer tech, asked him if he would loosen the plug for me. He said, "I loosen it the same way as you, so go for it".
Old 01-26-2023 | 02:12 AM
  #35  
GrantG's Avatar
GrantG
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,329
Likes: 5,266
From: Denver
Default

Originally Posted by matttheboatman
Yes, it would make sense that Porsche would fix this on the newer 2023s after discovering the issue.

Nevertheless, I will make it a best practice to loosen the oil tank drain plug when cold just to be on the safe side. I spoke with the dealer tech, asked him if he would loosen the plug for me. He said, "I loosen it the same way as you, so go for it".
Yes, I loosen cold per the TSB as a precaution also.

Last edited by GrantG; 01-26-2023 at 02:25 AM.
Old 01-26-2023 | 07:23 AM
  #36  
rubber_ducky's Avatar
rubber_ducky
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 118
From: Boston-ish
Default

I suppose another benefit of not draining until the engine cools is that the oil will flow out more slowly. This is beneficial for those trying to drain the recommended amount (4.1L). Though, if it were me (I’m not a 4RS owner) I would drain 7L as noted upstream in the thread.
Old 01-26-2023 | 12:03 PM
  #37  
pfbz's Avatar
pfbz
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,740
Likes: 2,913
From: US
Default

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky
I suppose another benefit of not draining until the engine cools is that the oil will flow out more slowly. This is beneficial for those trying to drain the recommended amount (4.1L). Though, if it were me (I’m not a 4RS owner) I would drain 7L as noted upstream in the thread.
Your not supposed to drain it cold... Your procedure is to *loosen* the plug cold without draining the oil, snug it back up, warm up the engine again, then drain...
The following 3 users liked this post by pfbz:
GrantG (01-27-2023), Jamipurs (02-27-2023), matttheboatman (01-31-2023)
Old 02-06-2023 | 12:33 PM
  #38  
matttheboatman's Avatar
matttheboatman
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 620
From: Florida
Default

I have updated my first post after completing my first oil change. After stressing over it, I decided to just get it done.

I did followed the safe method of removing the plugs cold. Both were easy to loosen - no chance of stripping, nice! I surmise that at the factory that they might have been slighly under torqued. In either event, they were easily removed.

I re-torqued the the oil tank plug (#2) to spec. However, on the oil plan plug, since I did not have a specialized torque wrench to fit the limited space, I used a make-shift 10mm wrench and my elbow torque to get to 22 lbs - which is not that much. Note; I observed that the ultra- light crush washer from the used plug was barely deformed - meaning that the 22 lbs of torque is not that much. I replaced both the plug and the washer but it was very difficult to determine which was new and which was the used one. I fired up the engine and got it up to temp, and double checked for no leaks.

Oil Drain - In total, a bit over 4 quarts came out. About 2 quarts from the oil pan, about 1.6 quarts from the oil tank, and.5 quarts from the oil filter removal - ish.

I took a sample the oil and sent to Blackstone for a report, and see how it comes back.

I added 3.5 quarts as suggested. And, I'm still awaiting the computer to give me an proper oil level reading so I can top off.

Perhaps the most interesting part of the entire process was was jacking up the car. Most will be do this from a 4 point lift, and not observe what I observed. I found that depending on the starting balance of the car, it would jack up differently each time, particularly from the front jack point. I know this sounds wierd but the chassis is so stiff, that jacking the car from the front jack point can raise both wheels from that side plus raise the oposite front wheel. Sometimes. And, to the degree that it does, determins how high any one wheel raises. Sometimes I can fit my race ramp 10" blocks, and sometimes I can't. Check out his picture - showing the car on (2) tiny 3" ramps. In sort of the yoga "pointer" position, the front left wheel is airborn with just wheels elevated 3". Wild. To be clear, my front right and rear left on on Megan Racings 3" ramps. The rear right is chocked, but on the ground.





Last edited by matttheboatman; 02-06-2023 at 01:16 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by matttheboatman:
BlazinPond (02-06-2023), cafe_racer (02-06-2023)
Old 02-06-2023 | 12:45 PM
  #39  
Ksdaoski's Avatar
Ksdaoski
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 1,978
Default

Appreciate the write up. Only half the oil is strange, it makes sense, but having changed oil essentially the same way for 30yrs, always draining the majority, will take some time to get used to it!

Have a photo of the oil filter location by chance? Same location as GT3?
Old 02-06-2023 | 01:09 PM
  #40  
matttheboatman's Avatar
matttheboatman
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 620
From: Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Ksdaoski
Appreciate the write up. Only half the oil is strange, it makes sense, but having changed oil essentially the same way for 30yrs, always draining the majority, will take some time to get used to it!

Have a photo of the oil filter location by chance? Same location as GT3?
Same as the GT3 - super easy accessable.




Last edited by matttheboatman; 02-06-2023 at 01:13 PM.
Old 02-07-2023 | 06:06 PM
  #41  
sandy59's Avatar
sandy59
Instructor
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 154
Likes: 97
From: Aberdeen UK
Default

Originally Posted by GrantG
Yes, the specified 4.1L drains when you remove the drain plug for the external oil tank, the engine sump drain plug, and the spin-on oil filter being removed.

While you can drain more oil (up to 7L), depending on draining duration and oil temperature, this is not part of the intended procedure. It is an unintended consequence and in my opinion, not desirable. They added this language after the fact to prevent someone from draining 7L (after being surprised that this is possible) and only adding 4.1L of new oil.

The engine is designed to retain a certain amount of oil in the heads and near the suction pump to allow for optimum oiling after an oil change.

There may be some other rationale at work here (less waste oil at time of change?), but I just change half the oil as specified but I change my oil very frequently so it’s always clean and retaining its specified viscosity.
I think the statement highlighted above might be key here.
As I understand with this engine there is no cam follower adjustment at all with no wear expected on the valve train components. In this case failsafe lubrication would be critical so maybe the suction for the scavenge pumps is higher up on the cam covers compared to previous engines, and therefore the failsafe is approx 2 litres of oil held in each cam covers at all times ??
Old 07-29-2023 | 08:06 AM
  #42  
tlaritz's Avatar
tlaritz
Instructor
 
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 155
Likes: 19
From: Denver area
Default Some more details of oil change

As stated above, the diffuser has 6 fasteners with torx head:


torx connectors shown with white arrow. Rear of car is at bottom of pic.


Moving forward, the next panel to remove looks like this:

Connectors indicated by red arrows do not need to be removed. Rear of car is shown at bottom.

To remove the next panel shown, I first removed 4 torx connectors from the rear most panel covering the tunnel. This pic also shows why I could not use my Quick Jack or Safety Stands to support the car. These products prevent access to 2 outer-most connectors on each side. The car must be supported either by a lift or via the wheels with a ramp, according to my experience.


White arrows point to torx connector. Brown arrows point to bolts loosened with 10mm socket. Blue arrows put to nuts also loosed with 10 mm socket. Taken from rear of car.

Also, one way to correctly torque the oil panel drain plug is shown below. I removed the M9 triple-square bit from the socket using a few taps from a hammer with center punch. I also am using a crow foot extension on the torque wrench as shown below. Of course, the value set on the torque wrench must be modified from the 22.9 ft lbs given above. It turns out that a Torx 50 is a reasonable good fit to the oil pan drain valve.


One approach to use torque wrench when installing oil pan plug.

Finally, the tightening torque for the Mahle filter is shown on the outside of the filter to be 20 Nm.

Last edited by tlaritz; 07-29-2023 at 08:20 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by tlaritz:
matttheboatman (08-21-2023), very green R (10-29-2023)
Old 08-16-2023 | 10:38 PM
  #43  
BlueGT4's Avatar
BlueGT4
Instructor
 
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 124
Likes: 20
Default

Originally Posted by matttheboatman
As per the technical service manual:

the oil pan drain plug is Torque Spec is at 31 NM, 22.9 ft lb. (The larger plug aligned vertically).

the oil tank drain plug is Torque Spec at 20 Nm, 14.8 ft lb. (The smaller plug aligned horizontally)

The manual states filing capacity is 4.1 ltrs. However, "depending on oil temp and drain time, in exceptional cases quantity could be up to 7 liters".

How does one get access to Workshop manual for GT4 RS? Are there online versions available yet?
Old 08-21-2023 | 02:52 PM
  #44  
GrantG's Avatar
GrantG
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,329
Likes: 5,266
From: Denver
Default

FYI - Someone posted an entirely new black plastic oil tank drain plug on his 992 GT3 (June 2023 production) and I assume this new tank and drain plug may show up on late production GT4 RS as well. Previous version was metal with captive o-ring (6mm female hex head). New one can likely be managed without a tool (bare hand).

Here is a pic (see left side of photo):



Old 09-02-2023 | 07:23 PM
  #45  
Dorian C's Avatar
Dorian C
Racer
 
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 258
Likes: 121
Default Oil change plug 1 is triple square M10



I want to clarify that the oil plug 1 is indeed M10 not M9. M9 works but it has more give. With a low profile socket, you will not need to crowfoot extender to torque it properly.
The following users liked this post:
hhcotap (09-07-2023)


Quick Reply: Oil Change on GT4RS



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 08:41 AM.