Power - how much is enough?
12-20-2022, 03:37 PM
#46
Externally my '21 GT4 didn't sound much different from the RS. My '16 GT4 on the other hand sounded different from both.
Last edited by ExMB; 12-20-2022 at 04:16 PM.
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manifold danger (12-21-2022)
12-20-2022, 09:00 PM
#47
Racer
These cars are plenty fast, but no harm in making some adjustments! For me more than anything the Soul OAP and valve controller or any type of exhaust mod make these cars sound fast!!!
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12-20-2022, 10:27 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
12-20-2022, 11:21 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Having reluctantly sold my 4.5L 981 GT4, I can say that the platform can most definitely handle more power.
However, in my 718 GT4 with OAPs, BMC filters, and short ratio gears, the experience is reminiscent of the 4.5L—by no means comparable, but a 718 that is woken up a bit starts to tap into a similar vein as its more powerful siblings. Once I'm able to get a Cobb tune installed and the car approaches 400 WHP, I think it'll be in a really good spot. But man will I miss the low-range torque of that 4.5L…
However, in my 718 GT4 with OAPs, BMC filters, and short ratio gears, the experience is reminiscent of the 4.5L—by no means comparable, but a 718 that is woken up a bit starts to tap into a similar vein as its more powerful siblings. Once I'm able to get a Cobb tune installed and the car approaches 400 WHP, I think it'll be in a really good spot. But man will I miss the low-range torque of that 4.5L…
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12-21-2022, 08:13 AM
#50
Pro
How much is enough? Why just a little bit more, isn't that always the answer ? But seriously, I've thought a lot about the Cobb tune( or one of the others), but as has been stated several times here, it's almost impossible to use it on the street. I don't track my 4.0, so it would mostly go to waste. Yes, I could brag about 440 hp, and know it was available, but not practically usable 98% of the time. But still....
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tigerhonaker (12-22-2022)
12-21-2022, 08:22 AM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Anyway, as I mentioned earlier. Power is becoming almost as subjective a topic as sound in this thread. The conversation has at least gotten me to pay a bit closer attention, and it has brought my focus back around to just how impressively fast these cars actually are. It's a relative conversation and it's easy to lose sight of a frame of reference when we're living in a period of insanely fast cars. I mean, when a Toyota Corolla with a 3-cylinder engine can do a sub 5-second 0-60 and 1/4 mile in mid 13s... it's worth taking note.
Several magazine tests have gotten the 0-60 to less than 3.5 seconds, and the 1/4 mile is in the mid-11s for the GT4, and the GTS cars are only a touch behind. As I mentioned earlier, that is astonishingly fast and was reserved purely for supercars or heavily modified street cars of just a few years ago.
It reminds me of a time that doesn't actually seem so long ago that my ultimate dream car was a Ferrari F430. These 718 cars (even the 2.5L 4 cylinders) are as fast as an F430- and I'd argue the 4.0 cars rival the sound (note, "rival" does not mean "better"
).I never did get an F430, and I've only had my BGTS40 for about two months, but every time I drive this thing I feel like I somehow ended up with something better. I can't believe how good of a sports car this car is, and this translates to how fast it is. Oh and I can drive it every day worry-free. The Ferrari can't claim that.
So back the question - how much is enough - clearly that's going to depend on the individual. But if 10 years ago someone said that the "entry level" Porsche sports cars would be as fast in a straight line as the then-modern Lambos and Ferraris of the world, I think we'd all be pretty impressed, right? But as things are relative, I think if you lose sight of how things used to be, then the answer would probably be that you could never have enough power.
Last edited by manifold danger; 12-21-2022 at 08:23 AM.
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daaa nope (12-21-2022)
12-21-2022, 10:53 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
8.8 swap ftw
12-21-2022, 11:04 AM
#53
Instructor
Having reluctantly sold my 4.5L 981 GT4, I can say that the platform can most definitely handle more power.
However, in my 718 GT4 with OAPs, BMC filters, and short ratio gears, the experience is reminiscent of the 4.5L—by no means comparable, but a 718 that is woken up a bit starts to tap into a similar vein as its more powerful siblings. Once I'm able to get a Cobb tune installed and the car approaches 400 WHP, I think it'll be in a really good spot. But man will I miss the low-range torque of that 4.5L…
However, in my 718 GT4 with OAPs, BMC filters, and short ratio gears, the experience is reminiscent of the 4.5L—by no means comparable, but a 718 that is woken up a bit starts to tap into a similar vein as its more powerful siblings. Once I'm able to get a Cobb tune installed and the car approaches 400 WHP, I think it'll be in a really good spot. But man will I miss the low-range torque of that 4.5L…
12-21-2022, 11:10 AM
#54
12-21-2022, 11:10 AM
#55
And you are describing any S2000 (boosted or not) driven by a teen or of similar demeanor.
A properly tuned and set up supercharged S2000 retains a very linera power curve... Power builds gradually and predictably from about 2krpm and up.
Mine dyno'd at 427WHP and I had 0 differential issues for the 6 years I mostly daily'd it in the summer months.
If you have 15 minutes and any interest - he's the LHT Performance build vid on my car -
- it was an awesome car and was hard to justify selling for a spyder.https://studio.youtube.com/video/rN07gqD_JpY/edit
12-21-2022, 11:26 AM
#56
Burning Brakes
Right up until you shred the diff into a billion little pieces. I've had two friends with this experience, I'm sure there are many more! Plus, the power band in those cars was pretty much nothing... nothing... nothi- HOLY ****. About 800 rpm of madness.
Anyway, as I mentioned earlier. Power is becoming almost as subjective a topic as sound in this thread. The conversation has at least gotten me to pay a bit closer attention, and it has brought my focus back around to just how impressively fast these cars actually are. It's a relative conversation and it's easy to lose sight of a frame of reference when we're living in a period of insanely fast cars. I mean, when a Toyota Corolla with a 3-cylinder engine can do a sub 5-second 0-60 and 1/4 mile in mid 13s... it's worth taking note.
Several magazine tests have gotten the 0-60 to less than 3.5 seconds, and the 1/4 mile is in the mid-11s for the GT4, and the GTS cars are only a touch behind. As I mentioned earlier, that is astonishingly fast and was reserved purely for supercars or heavily modified street cars of just a few years ago.
It reminds me of a time that doesn't actually seem so long ago that my ultimate dream car was a Ferrari F430. These 718 cars (even the 2.5L 4 cylinders) are as fast as an F430- and I'd argue the 4.0 cars rival the sound (note, "rival" does not mean "better" ).
I never did get an F430, and I've only had my BGTS40 for about two months, but every time I drive this thing I feel like I somehow ended up with something better. I can't believe how good of a sports car this car is, and this translates to how fast it is. Oh and I can drive it every day worry-free. The Ferrari can't claim that.
So back the question - how much is enough - clearly that's going to depend on the individual. But if 10 years ago someone said that the "entry level" Porsche sports cars would be as fast in a straight line as the then-modern Lambos and Ferraris of the world, I think we'd all be pretty impressed, right? But as things are relative, I think if you lose sight of how things used to be, then the answer would probably be that you could never have enough power.
Anyway, as I mentioned earlier. Power is becoming almost as subjective a topic as sound in this thread. The conversation has at least gotten me to pay a bit closer attention, and it has brought my focus back around to just how impressively fast these cars actually are. It's a relative conversation and it's easy to lose sight of a frame of reference when we're living in a period of insanely fast cars. I mean, when a Toyota Corolla with a 3-cylinder engine can do a sub 5-second 0-60 and 1/4 mile in mid 13s... it's worth taking note.
Several magazine tests have gotten the 0-60 to less than 3.5 seconds, and the 1/4 mile is in the mid-11s for the GT4, and the GTS cars are only a touch behind. As I mentioned earlier, that is astonishingly fast and was reserved purely for supercars or heavily modified street cars of just a few years ago.
It reminds me of a time that doesn't actually seem so long ago that my ultimate dream car was a Ferrari F430. These 718 cars (even the 2.5L 4 cylinders) are as fast as an F430- and I'd argue the 4.0 cars rival the sound (note, "rival" does not mean "better"
).I never did get an F430, and I've only had my BGTS40 for about two months, but every time I drive this thing I feel like I somehow ended up with something better. I can't believe how good of a sports car this car is, and this translates to how fast it is. Oh and I can drive it every day worry-free. The Ferrari can't claim that.
So back the question - how much is enough - clearly that's going to depend on the individual. But if 10 years ago someone said that the "entry level" Porsche sports cars would be as fast in a straight line as the then-modern Lambos and Ferraris of the world, I think we'd all be pretty impressed, right? But as things are relative, I think if you lose sight of how things used to be, then the answer would probably be that you could never have enough power.
Now? A V6 Camry clicks off 13s. The fact that the "hairdresser" Porsche model can do this today off the floor is amazing. Hell - I haven't researched at all but I'd bet you that the 718 Spyder/GT4 is as fast, if not faster in the 1/4 than a stock 996 TT. It makes more horsepower...
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manifold danger (12-21-2022)
12-21-2022, 12:21 PM
#57
Some of the numbers are helped by launch control (and thus not apples to apples in my book), but it's still a 120 mph trap speed car, which is no slouch. What really impresses me about the numbers is that, when compared with C5 Z06 and C6 Z06, these numbers are much more usable, especially when it comes to getting power to the ground on the street. This was not lost on me when I was making decisions.
Last edited by enduro; 12-21-2022 at 12:22 PM.
12-21-2022, 12:33 PM
#58
i know it was the industry "standard" to judge a vehicle by it's 1/4 mile time but it always made me chuckle when people used that as the basis for comparison with a 911 or cayman/boxster. they were never designed to be straight line cars (well maybe the 930 ended up that way out of driver necessity), they were built for curves. take for example this post:
that car was probably a hell of a lot of fun on the strip and powerful for it's day, but i bet it could not keep up with me in my '83 targa on a curvy track or road (ok maybe but it would not be easy). on a strip it would crush me.
Exactly! Mid-11s?!? Man I remember when the LT1 Camaro came out, and "good" ones would run 13.90s in the 1/4.... that was HUGE news. Most "fast" typical stock street cars were in the mid-high 14s! Hell when I was still a partner with Nasty Performance in the early 00s, we built a LS1 Trans Am that did mid-11s... with ported heads, big cam, 4.11 gears, and M/T ET Streets! And that was HOT STUFF!
12-21-2022, 02:57 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Yessir, same for the diff. Great pieces of kit; the short gears are a great mod for track use (plus making the power more accessible on the street), and the LSD does a great job in removing the rear-end wiggle under hard braking. I know there's a ton of conversation out there on suspension adjustments to tame this issue, but honestly it was replacing the stock diff with a proper LSD that made all the difference for me (still on stock alignment and suspension).
Last edited by burnergt4; 12-22-2022 at 12:20 AM.
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12-21-2022, 03:20 PM
#60
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yessir, same for the diff. Great pieces of kit—the short gears are a great mod for track use (plus making the power more accessible on the street), and the LSD does a great job in removing the rear-end wiggle under hard braking. I know there's a ton of conversation out there on suspension adjustments to tame this issue, but honestly it was replacing the stock diff with a proper LSD that made all the difference for me (still on stock alignment and suspension).
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burnergt4 (12-21-2022)