Power - how much is enough?
12-19-2022, 05:21 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
It's all personal preference but I think my preference would be about another 50hp. Will look to work towards that with a tune and a full exhaust, plus it will sound like it should have from factory with that, so that kills two birds with one stone. It could use more torque down low, but that's the forte of a turbo(s) and I like the NA power delivery even over sophisticated modern turbos; along with the simplicity of an NA from a reliability standpoint. For a perfect driving experience maybe that extra power isn't even available in the first few gears as I think the first two gears are more than enough for the platform, but this is another philosophical discussion in itself.
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patdonahue (12-19-2022)
12-19-2022, 06:55 PM
#17
I've owned, and driven, a lot of cars with a LOT more horsepower. I think the Spyder/GT4 is "enough" - and generally due to the tall gearing. IMO it could get by with less if it had shorter ratios - IMO the old 3.4L 9A1 flat six might've been "enough" with proper ratios (my old 987.2 with a tune and Fabspeed race headers was IMO perfect - it did not have the long long legs of the 981/718 gearing).
I've generally found that, with more power than we have, it becomes difficult to put the power down unless you're already moving. I don't want to have to wait until 60-70mph to be able to go WOT and get the shoved in the back. I want to squirt around town. Pull out of a parking lot, hit it and rip up to 60 before slowing down for the 50mph speed limit.
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daaa nope (12-20-2022)
12-19-2022, 07:50 PM
#18
It's all personal preference but I think my preference would be about another 50hp. Will look to work towards that with a tune and a full exhaust, plus it will sound like it should have from factory with that, so that kills two birds with one stone. It could use more torque down low, but that's the forte of a turbo(s) and I like the NA power delivery even over sophisticated modern turbos; along with the simplicity of an NA from a reliability standpoint. For a perfect driving experience maybe that extra power isn't even available in the first few gears as I think the first two gears are more than enough for the platform, but this is another philosophical discussion in itself.
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UncleDude (12-19-2022)
12-19-2022, 08:07 PM
#19
I feel that 400-440 is the sweet-spot for the GTS chassis. The area lacking pre-tune was straight line acceleration. This is resolved post stage 2, however slightly more eager to leg go at the rear, but still in a very manageable manner.
Re the RS, different chassis and likely 500HP is a good match. Only been in the passenger seat of an RS, so can't really comment. I would think the GT4RS is easier than a GT3 on the limit. Also, NA cars are far more predictable vs forced induction.
Re the RS, different chassis and likely 500HP is a good match. Only been in the passenger seat of an RS, so can't really comment. I would think the GT4RS is easier than a GT3 on the limit. Also, NA cars are far more predictable vs forced induction.
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prof.nano (12-20-2022)
12-19-2022, 09:11 PM
#21
Based on current emissions and safety standards, the sweet spot IMO is 500bhp NA with a close ratio 6MT.
I'll rather take more responsive gears shifting coupled with a much much lower top speed at 250km/h instead of theoretical top speed that can never be legally used unless you live in Germany.
I'm going to ruffle feathers here, the 6MT in both the GT4 and GT3 Touring are just too tall.
I'll rather take more responsive gears shifting coupled with a much much lower top speed at 250km/h instead of theoretical top speed that can never be legally used unless you live in Germany.
I'm going to ruffle feathers here, the 6MT in both the GT4 and GT3 Touring are just too tall.
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12-19-2022, 09:12 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I think for the Spyder 450hp would be the sweet spot that is still manageable and safe. For the GT4 I think 475 would be a monster. Though I think if there was a way to shed 200-300 lbs and have shorter gears, the power would be more than enough.
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Frank Torres (12-20-2022)
12-19-2022, 09:28 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Based on current emissions and safety standards, the sweet spot IMO is 500bhp NA with a close ratio 6MT.
I'll rather take more responsive gears shifting coupled with a much much lower top speed at 250km/h instead of theoretical top speed that can never be legally used unless you live in Germany.
I'm going to ruffle feathers here, the 6MT in both the GT4 and GT3 Touring are just too tall.
I'll rather take more responsive gears shifting coupled with a much much lower top speed at 250km/h instead of theoretical top speed that can never be legally used unless you live in Germany.
I'm going to ruffle feathers here, the 6MT in both the GT4 and GT3 Touring are just too tall.
Take a current Manual GT3 and imagine 4th gear is top gear. I’d be annoyed even in USA. 9,000 rpm in 6th gear at 300kph (186 mph) might be feasible, but no way I’d go for 250kph. The current gearing is good for about 225mph in the GT3 at redline in 6th (drag and reduced power after 8,400 rpm peak don’t allow it). And yet some owners find the GT3 buzzy on the highway already and ask for a taller cruising gear.
Last edited by GrantG; 12-19-2022 at 09:59 PM.
12-20-2022, 07:40 AM
#24
more about bhp/ton imo and I like 300bhp/ton for road use and that also keeps you honest on track days.
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c1pher (12-20-2022)
12-20-2022, 07:44 AM
#25
I've owned, and driven, a lot of cars with a LOT more horsepower. I think the Spyder/GT4 is "enough" - and generally due to the tall gearing. IMO it could get by with less if it had shorter ratios - IMO the old 3.4L 9A1 flat six might've been "enough" with proper ratios (my old 987.2 with a tune and Fabspeed race headers was IMO perfect - it did not have the long long legs of the 981/718 gearing).
I've generally found that, with more power than we have, it becomes difficult to put the power down unless you're already moving. I don't want to have to wait until 60-70mph to be able to go WOT and get the shoved in the back. I want to squirt around town. Pull out of a parking lot, hit it and rip up to 60 before slowing down for the 50mph speed limit.
That and, I want it to last a while so I can enjoy it. I've driven a few Teslas (including a Plaid), a few Taycans (including a Turbo S), a few Audi models including a recent RS7. Stupid, stupid fast... which, yes, it's fun... BUT in a practical, realistic sense, if you're already rolling a bit in traffic, and go WOT because "why not"... In the blink of an eye and before you really even get to savor the sense of acceleration you're at 100+ mph and it's "**** I better slow down."
I've generally found that, with more power than we have, it becomes difficult to put the power down unless you're already moving. I don't want to have to wait until 60-70mph to be able to go WOT and get the shoved in the back. I want to squirt around town. Pull out of a parking lot, hit it and rip up to 60 before slowing down for the 50mph speed limit.
That and, I want it to last a while so I can enjoy it. I've driven a few Teslas (including a Plaid), a few Taycans (including a Turbo S), a few Audi models including a recent RS7. Stupid, stupid fast... which, yes, it's fun... BUT in a practical, realistic sense, if you're already rolling a bit in traffic, and go WOT because "why not"... In the blink of an eye and before you really even get to savor the sense of acceleration you're at 100+ mph and it's "**** I better slow down."
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c1pher (12-20-2022)
12-20-2022, 08:08 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Power AND sound are about perfect in the GTS. I haven't driven a GT4/Spyder but I'm sure it's near identical. I will eventually upgrade to a Kline/JCR/CarGraphic/etc. but honestly the screaming intake noise from the factory 4.0 in my BGTS is enough for me. The gearing is crazy tall but I'm used to it, and I'm not trying to set lap or land speed records anyway.
I'm honestly not interested in a 4RS nor all the backflips I'd have to do to get one.
I still haven't lost sight that a low 12 second 1/4 mile used to be reserved for supercars a little over a decade ago. It's plenty fast for my needs.
edit: make that high 11 second 1/4 mile. Yeah, these things don't need any more damn power lol.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/
I'm honestly not interested in a 4RS nor all the backflips I'd have to do to get one.
I still haven't lost sight that a low 12 second 1/4 mile used to be reserved for supercars a little over a decade ago. It's plenty fast for my needs.
edit: make that high 11 second 1/4 mile. Yeah, these things don't need any more damn power lol.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/
Last edited by manifold danger; 12-20-2022 at 08:14 AM.
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jgreen76 (12-20-2022)
12-20-2022, 08:37 AM
#27
12-20-2022, 09:49 AM
#28
Racer
I have been looking for more power since I started out in a 987 Spyder. I loved the car but found myself trying to push the accelerator pedal through the floor looking for more. Sadly, I traded that car for a 996TTS. That car brought a lot more power but that was about it. I realized that more power wasn’t what I was looking for. So I went back to the Spyder but in 981 trim. It was enough. And now I’m in a 718 and pretty happy with the power but disappointed with the sound. I am remedying that. So the car should be perfect very shortly.
12-20-2022, 10:14 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
stomp on the gas. no giggles? then not enough power!
i grew up driving stock 60’s VWs. not enough power!
200hp 986: enough hp 90% of the time. never too much.
330hp 981: enough hp 95% of the time. never too much.
414hp 982: enough hp 98% of the time. never too much.
CGT (not mine!! but got to drive): too much!
i took the spyder out in the rain the other day. cold tires and pavement. stomped on it in 1st gear and the tires were spinning, as expected. stomped on it in 2nd gear and it easily broke loose. the nannies helped else i probably would’ve been pointing the other direction. so, it’s enough in some circumstances.
i grew up driving stock 60’s VWs. not enough power!
200hp 986: enough hp 90% of the time. never too much.
330hp 981: enough hp 95% of the time. never too much.
414hp 982: enough hp 98% of the time. never too much.
CGT (not mine!! but got to drive): too much!
i took the spyder out in the rain the other day. cold tires and pavement. stomped on it in 1st gear and the tires were spinning, as expected. stomped on it in 2nd gear and it easily broke loose. the nannies helped else i probably would’ve been pointing the other direction. so, it’s enough in some circumstances.
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Ken in San Diego (12-20-2022)
12-20-2022, 10:57 AM
#30
Having been down the road with the 996 Turbo and the MB Black Series, I felt the Spyder just needed a bit more power.
So I added the Cobb Stage 1 93 tune and it meets all my needs. The really impressive part is the change in character from 4,500k and up. The car screams to redline and doesn't want to stop. To be fair, it doesn't see redline in 3rd gear very often but it's a lot of fun chasing toward it.
So I added the Cobb Stage 1 93 tune and it meets all my needs. The really impressive part is the change in character from 4,500k and up. The car screams to redline and doesn't want to stop. To be fair, it doesn't see redline in 3rd gear very often but it's a lot of fun chasing toward it.
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dmboone25 (12-20-2022)