That's because the only difference between a GTS and a GT4 is not the motor...

GT4:

• The entire front clip and mount is 991.2 GT3. Axle and ratio, brakes, suspension, etc. Obviously rear is ME unique but same GT3 suspension.
• Brakes, wheels, tires, PASM, PSM, etc are all different. One is a GT division car the other is a 718.
• PDK gets the GT-specific programmed unit that comes in the GT4. Manual GT4 gets a shorter shifter.
• The engine makes more power, RL is higher, makes max HP higher, max TQ band wider as well.

Besides the motor differences, you have all of these other differences that are simply not available in the GTS. And the GTS shares these above components with the S. Which means it is more closely related to the S, not the GT4.

The GT4, like any vehicle, is the sum of its parts. Not just a motor, not just a suspension, not just brakes, etc... When you add it all together you have a very different package. Especially since all of these components are unique to the GT4.

The fact that you can't tell the differences is unfortunate but it does further validate your choice not to go for the GT4 since clearly the differences would have been unappreciated.

 

Who are you trying to convince with repeating the same things we’ve read here hundreds of times? Yourself?

As well as has been stated these differences only really become apparent on smooth tracks. Not on roads that have laws, bumps, potholes and many other hazards/imperfections.

Speaking of wheels and tires, which did you and your buddy have on during the canyon drive? I’m willing to bet if your buddy in the GTS had similar rubber many of the GT4s advantages dry up during the same drive.

Look through these forums, how many people have complained about and modified their GT4/Spyder suspensions compared to us GTS Cayman/Boxster owners?

 

phow,

I did also consider the GTS 4.0 when looking into the GT4.
The more research I did the more I came to realize that I should go with the GT4.
And that I could change some things to make the GT4 more to my liking and also more for "Street-Duty" versus (Track-Duty).

I now have 2,500-miles on mine and have totally enjoyed driving it.
It's currently sitting waiting for the Michelin AS/4 tires to go back into production.
Once they are installed it will once again be back on the streets.
Plus, when cold weather is here as well as at times an over abundance of rain I'll be all set.

You have provided IMO the facts on the GTS as well as the GT4.

Terry

 

Well, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't read this previously given your statement about the GT4 and GTS being more closely related purely based on the motor... I guess I was wrong and your understanding of how these other components impact the dynamics of the car is just very lacking and your logic is simply flawed.

Untrue but no point in arguing this further. The type of driving you do is clearly very different. Nothing negative is meant by this. Just stating a fact.

Again, I mean zero offense but I'm not going to argue the dynamics of spirited canyon driving with someone that lives in MN. As you have stated yourself, you don't have access to the same types of roads and I simply don't have the time or energy to try and point out all of the differences via a forum post (tire limitations vs entirely different front clip dynamics, etc). As far as those that are modifying their GT4/Spyder suspension (I assume to be more compliant) that is unfortunate and I would say to them that they may have bought the wrong car for their specific use. I know GT3 guys that have done the same. However, modifying the suspension has never entered my mind. But, I also don't drive this car other than fun-spirited backroad/canyon driving.

 

That's awesome. Out of curiosity, did you primarily make changes to the suspension?

I'm curious to hear how you like the tires when you get them. I love the Cup2's but they are just magnets for anything left on the road (lots of construction by me). I have already replaced two due to roofing nails....

 

I haven't only driven in MN and have quite a bit of experience on and off track so yah. I happen to live in MN so it would makes sense to buy the right car for one’s region/usage no?

Look at @tigerhonaker post, no offense tiger, I love your enthusiasm but you prove more of my points/opinions than @phow. A lot of people love the idea of a GT division engineered car. That idea quickly wears off with regular usage and then change modify it to be more friendly on the street which was not the GT divisions intent, negating said advantages etc.

Phow, you know the quickest best mod (besides driver training) is better tires. That alone usually makes the biggest difference and best bang for the buck.

 

Of course! As I have stated several times in previous posts, clearly the GTS was the right choice for you. And any assumptions I'm making are based on your previous statements in other posts.

And of course, tires are one of the easiest/quickest mods you can do. But that is not really what the discussion is about. Or is it? I've lost track at this point...

Clearly, you are happy with the GTS and I'm happy that you are happy lol. I'm not here trying to convince you that you should have bought a GT4. If anything, you have convinced me that a GT4 would have been the wrong choice.

My only argument here is that the GTS is more closely related to the S than the GT4. That's it. You disagree on that point and that's totally cool.

 

I didn't know MT reviews counted?

 

Having driven the range, I certainly find that the GTS 4.0 has a lot more in common with the GT4 than the S. For me, the conversation starts and stops at 4.0L engine 😁. It defines the character of the car above everything else.

 

100% spot on. It’s not even a debate.

 

Ironically, I grew up driving in Minnesota. I now live in SoCal, and purchased my GTS 4.0 primarily for weekend canyon carving. For me, the GTS 4.0 was still a better all around car for my use case here in California compared to the GT4. 👍 As others have stated, both are great cars. I simply wanted the better road car, rather than race car.

 

And I’ve lived in Sacramento, Milpitas and Camarillo when I was younger. Had much less fun cars back then (late 80s/early 90s) unfortunately.

 

phow,

I think to fully answer you I'll just post a picture of what was done to my GT4 before I took delivery.
That includes the only change that I think would be suspension related.
Tires,
As you know the GT4 comes with Cup2 tires.
I pre-sold those and Porsche of Nashville had the Michelin PS4S tires in the parts dept. waiting to install on my GT4 when it arrived.
(If I made any error/mistake it was not doing a more thorough research on the Michelin tires as I think I would have seen the Michelin AS/4 tires as well as the PS4S tires)
I'm currently waiting for the Michelin AS/4 tires to go into production which from my conversations with Michelin-Customer-Support will be sooner than later.
The AS/4 tires will be per all I have seen and read in comments quieter than the current PS4S tires which I hope turns out to be true.
All the changes to my GT4 were and are to make it more Streetable as I will not be tracking it at now 76-years old.
I went with the GT4 instead of the GTS 4.0 because I 100% love the overall looks of the GT4 it's so Killer looking to me.
Honestly, if Porsche had a "Touring-Version" offered for the GT4 like they do for the Porsche GT3 "Touring" I more than likely would have gone for that.

Below is what I requested with raising the GT4 as close to 1/2" if possible ???


This is the Work Order that shows the Shop-Foreman's explanation on raising the GT4.
As it turned out to have the alignment perfect the GT4 couldn't be raised the 1/2" I had inquired about.
It's less than 1/2" but does give a little extra clearance for the Front underside spoiler as well as the Rear as both were raised to keep the Factory-Rake-Angle the same as the GT4 was manufactured.



Any further questions fire-away buddy.
BTW, check your Friend-Request

Terry

minn19,

Let me see if I can say in text where I am with the GT4 ............
I have changed and still have 1 last change coming soon to make mine more (Streetable) for my use.
We all do what we wish and if I could say the following with No-Offense intended to you or anyone on Rennlist.
In many ways to me the GTS 4.0 offers a heck of a lot more Creature-Comforts than the GT4 with a 4.0 engine with a little-less-powerful engine.
But, I wanted the looks of the GT4 and after thinking and thinking and pondering I came to the decision that just maybe I might be able to make my GT4 more Civilized/Streetable.
I am of the opinion I have accomplished that to some degree right now.
Now, if the Michelin AS/4 tires do turn out to be "Quieter" plus the other obvious benefits like use in Rain & Cold weather conditions I'll be even further towards my goal.
It's costing me some serious dollars to make all the changes but to me it's worth it as this will No-Doubt be my Last True-Sports-Car.

Lastly, there simply to me No-Right or Wrong choice between the GTS 4.0 and the GT4 it's just a personal choice but once again the GTS 4.0 is to me an Awesome Machine.


Terry

 

I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks to everyone for being civilized.

In the end, the “reasons” why we struggle to define the differences is because we are looking for logical answers. These cars are not logical. They are emotional. And we end up with the car that ultimately tugs at our soul….even if there is some logic involved. We can even be emotional about being logical. But a six figure car is not logical l…any way you slice it.

If we absolutely HAD to buy one of these cars based on logic alone, the VAST majority would be GTS…because that is the more logical choice in almost all cases.

I bought a Spyder because I liked it. And it’s pretty…the prettiest car made today(IMO). All of its heritage and underpinnings just make it that much more better…to me. It is special. It is a special driving experience. It makes me feel special when I drive it. It is special to just look at. Did I mention…. it is pretty!!!

And I will admit that the “specialness” is important to me. The GT4/Spyder are a bit more “special”. Just my opinion. I started this journey aimed at the GTS. The one to my spec was $105k. My Spyder came in at $115k…WITH LESS COMFY AND CONVENIENCE OPTIONS. That $10k difference was worth it to me even though my car is slightly less comfortable and convenient. And that difference is measured in emotion…not logic. Obviously there needs to be some substance behind that emotion and the Spyder has plenty.

All my opinion…and emotion 🤪🤪

 

Terry, Thanks for the detailed response! I'm considering another set of wheels with a tire alternative since it does get chilly here this time of the year and I have to work the Cup2's pretty hard and for a while, before they get to desired temps. I have a second set of wheels for the GT3 with PS4S installed and they are better than the Cup2's in the chillier weather but they are still a little sketchy when pushing the car with low outside temps. I may check out the AS4's since the only reason for the second set of wheels is purely low temps.

As far as raising the GT4 slightly for some extra clearance ground clearance, I personally don't see that as much of a compromise since the suspension is made to be adjustable and you still have proper alignment. I'm still on my first lip on the GT4 (probably 4th or 5th replacement on the GT3) so I know the day is coming when it's going to take some major damage

BTW, huge congrats. 76 and driving a GT4! Total life goals right there I hope you enjoy it in good health for many more years!