Jim Rockford

First bullet point under the pros list is great sounding engine.

stop right there. Lost all credibility on anything that is subsequently written.

phow

I doubt that’s true but I wouldn’t say with any certainty without seeing an actual road test.

The GT3 front clip is bound to be faster than the 718 clip regardless of the dampening being stiffer. And the GT4 is more than just a different front clip.

I also own a GT3 and can’t imagine a more compliant 911 GTS being faster on a crappy road.

Now if the argument is that the driver didn’t feel as comfortable pushing the GT4/GT3 is due to the road conditions and punishment it would surely produce, that would make more sense.

MaddMike

Not a wing fan either. That's why I have a Spyder. Not trying to break any lap records.

TRZ06

That in itself though is a little disappointing, considering the price of entry. The crazy thing to me is that most reviews say the opposite. I watched over 30 YouTube videos on the GT4 before my allocation came avail. and 99.9% of them raved about the handling and how composed it was. Come to find out, that ONLY applied to a smooth surface, which most place on the road and in the US are not.

The most honest and true review I got about the GT4 and its deficiencies was from Randy Pobst in a private chat session on his members only YouTube channel. Now that I have a high-end MCS suspension on it, the limitations of the car are simply the fact that it is a small short wheelbase and track width car with a strut suspension on all 4 corners made for slower canyon driving.

Unfortunately it seems you have to move to the 911 for a true Porsche experience and that is just beyond my means, so back to the lonely GM brand for me. It may not carry the clout and prestige of Porsche , but you can not deny GM has suspension and chassis tuning down pat on their performance offerings.

phow

The GT4 is really meant to be the “fun” GT car in Porsche’s lineup. Great backroad/canyon car that you can also track and it puts down some impressive lap times as well.

Also owning a GT3, I can say that it is the go-to for serious track use but ever since owning the GT4, I find myself grabbing the keys for it over the GT3 9/10 when it comes to a quick spirited drive around some local roads.

wizee

On equal tires and equal drivers, for a 991.2 GTS vs 991.2 GT3 on crappy bumpy/cracked/potholed curves, my bet would be on the GTS being quicker through the curve. Never mind ride comfort, stiff suspensions just don't maintain contact with bumpy roads as well. Stiff suspensions over bumpy roads unsettle the car, and make pressure over tire contact patches less consistent. You'd be losing and regaining grip a lot more when at the edge of traction, and also note that kinetic friction is less than static friction. This difference in losing and regaining grip won't be noticeable until you're above 70-80% of the tire's grip limits where the fluctuations in forces at tire contact patch can momentarily take you beyond the limits of tire grip.

The advantages of the 911 GT3 over 911 GTS are more in the sound, the precise and tactile feel of the steering, the solid feel of the brakes, the sharp engine response, reliability under extended track use, aero, weight, agility, ability to achieve more track friendly alignments (that also help grip on good surfaces), and also power to weight if you're staying at the top of the rev range. Tire differences (and 992 double wishbone front) aside, grip over crappy bumpy surfaces is more consistent (allowing you to hold higher speed) with a somewhat softer suspension.

Now of course, when you go too soft to the point where the car bounces around or leans excessively, then performance gets worse even over crappy roads. However, the Porsche GT2/3/4 suspension tuning is more optimal for grip on track and decent roads, while the S/GTS suspension setups are more optimal for grip on bad roads.

TRZ06

You hit the nail on the head, but nobody says that in their reviews of the GT4 unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, the GT4 is amazing (well now it is anyways with MCS dampers on it) especially in the smooth road stuff and is much better than my 1LE was, but its limitation is rough pavement. I happen to live in an area where all my local/daily roads are crap, so that is what I experience regularly in the GT4. I get outside of my local area though and the roads are better, the GT4 shines much more.

The things that the MCS suspension made better from the stock PASM is less compression so the ride isn't like a pogo stick and better/tigher rebound control, which keeps the rear-end more settled when upset mid corner. I think the stock PASM GT4 set-up was set with too much compression and not enough rebound/underdamped

I think the C8 Z06 will be a better dual purpose daily sports car for me as I do have to deal with crap roads. And to be honest , any sports car equipped with MRC will be the better dual purpose sports car.

wizee

That sounds accurate to me. The Spyder suspension does appear to be a bit softer damped than the GT4 version from what I hear, though I haven't driven a GT4 to compare myself. I'm pretty happy with my Spyder suspension overall, it deals with most bumps I encounter pretty well given its sharpness and agility, and Waterloo region roads are far from great. To me, the slight trade offs in how well the car handles mid-corner bumps are worth the improved handling and feel it brings in general. However, when it comes to maintaining grip and composure through severe mid corner cracks/bumps/potholes, my old 987.1 base Boxster (a car much sloppier than my Spyder in general) was a bit better, as is my Mercedes-Benz CL550 (a 4500+ lb land yacht), and the Taycan 4S I rented last year beats them all when it comes to composure and grip through bumps.

You do seem more critical of the GT4 suspension than most on this forum. I'm not sure if your local roads are unusually bad, you have really high expectations for chassis composure and grip through crap roads, or something was wrong with your PASM dampers. Your Camaro suspension was much softer than any Porsche GT car, and of course the quick response of the magnetorheological also helps to quickly tame the chassis movements despite its general softness. A C8 Z06 is wider and longer than a GT4, and probably a bit softer damped too, though it would be considerably stiffer than your Camaro was (especially if you get Z07), and would still get more upset over bad bumps than your Camaro would. When it comes to maintaining composure and grip over really crap roads, big soft-riding luxury-performance EVs (like the Taycan or Mercedes EQS 53 or Lucid Air) are king. There's a trade-off between composure on bad roads and sharpness/agility/composure on good roads as you firm up the suspension, but lowering the centre of gravity the way an EV does improves both.

GTS-Jim

CONS

• Doesn't handle as well as expected

I don't know what they expected but Motor Trend doesn't review cars as well as I expected.
Oh wait, maybe they do which is why I don't read Motor Trend.

Cpt Voodoo

I am not a huge MT fan. IMO, Lieberman is a bit of a blowhard. That said, the nature of this sort of comparison article is to be overly critical of the contestants until settling on the final two. They were also critical of the M4 and others.

Love my GTS.

dmboone25

Completely agree - the Spyder is one of the best looking cars I've ever seen in person, and if you've ever been to a Dallas "Cars & Coffee" at Classic BMW (well, at least before they stopped having it there!), there's some pretty exotic stuff in the area.

AlexCeres

I'll take the other side. This forum places a huge amount of emphasis on the gt4 as "the best". Which really only applies to track work, or some extremely serious canyon efforts. The gts 4.0 has a lot more daily comforts, and the difference in suspension performance for most lawful driving off-track is just not that large. The gt4 isn't especially great on rough roads. That's the compromise for more track performance. Same conversation on the 911 side. Folks all wrapped up in the "the best" and then whine incessantly on how the new cars are too stiff and fidgety on their local roads.

The gts deserves more respect.

Zhao

^ I don't think that's true. Plenty of GT4 owners on this forum recommend the GTS over the GT4 for all the logical reasons you just listed when people ask which one to get. I think we're also pretty grounded on how 'slow' our cars are on the track.

I think this place is surprisingly free of fanboys who think the GT4 is the best thing ever. Now I do agree the 911 world is a bit more wrapped up in 911 < 911 S < GTS < Turbo < Turbo S which I find weird because I'd have more interest in a C2S than any of the models above it except a GT3.

AlexCeres

i guess we have different memories of this forum :-)

ironically the 911 -> 911 TTS continuum is less challenging. There are no trade offs other than money. Each step is better than the previous without any sacrifices. The gts4.0 vs gt4 is more complex, as is the bgts vs Spyder. There are trade offs. The gts is a significantly better daily and a significantly worse track car than a gt4. The tts is better at everything than a C2S.

I was thinking of the folks who HAVE to have a gt3 for dailying and can’t stoop to a tts. Which is really weird. The gt3 is right for a small number of folks, just like the gt4 is the right daily for a small number of folks. But most people asking the question are too wrapped up with “best” and not “right for me”

wizee

Between a GT3 and Turbo, there’s a choice between an amazing sounding, sharp, and high revving engine, and a comparatively dull sounding and responding engine that has massive torque and power (that’s mostly useless on the street). Thus, I can see someone choosing a GT3 over a Turbo for daily use on crap roads and city streets just because of the engine sound and response.

For GTS vs GT4/Spyder, it’s same engine (tune differences being negligible), just differences in street friendliness vs. chassis sharpness and track friendliness. Well that and looks too, I like the GT4/Spyder styling better than the GTS.