Jim Rockford

Porsche also has a vested interest in showcasing a brake upgrade that costs almost 10k in the best possible light. Randy Pobst gets in the car and enjoys them fresh and doesn’t have to deal with any long term pain of compromises or big bills to replace.

They may shave a few seconds off a lap time but is anyone here making money from setting lap times?

If PCCBs are your thing great, they look fantastic and have no dusting on their side but on a car that I am not driving to end up on a podium the irons are just swell.

Underblu

Porsche runs their cars with their premium brake option as expected. If they didn’t, regardless of lap times, that would look real bad for PCCBs. Show me multiple comparison lap times where PCCBs outperform Irons, That’s data, not conjecture or speculation.

And it wasn’t a salesman who gave me that advice which I made very clear. I reposted a post that I hope will provide some insights to those considering both options. That’s it. No reason to get defensive about your choice.

floodtide

I had carbon ceramic brakes on my 2015 Z28. They were amazing on the track. The low weight and great stopping performance definitely helped lower my track times. They also lasted two and a half years of track days before I replaced them with iron brakes from Performance Brakes to save my carbon ceramic brakes for future resale of the car. The iron brakes were good but there was a definite loss of on track performance, stopping and acceleration. The cost of the PCCBs is a definite negative but i think there are some aftermarket options that can help with the cost. You can always switch to iron brakes

Buckett76

Slight spin on this topic, floodtide (or anyone else) did you have any issues selling your car with iron brakes even though original spec was ceramics? or did you save enough life to put them back on before resale?
I'm considering the PCCB option, they may last, they may not (yes they will see track use). But what I don't plan on doing is replacing the rotors if/when they wear out with another set of ceramics. I doubt PCCB's really add much to resale value on, say a 4-5 year old car (with healthy miles ). My only concern would be if the car can't be CPO'd or some other BS comes up that restricts the resale, ie dealer says they need to replace irons with PCCB's for resale and discount trade in by $20k!, although figure I could sell private at that point.

Yc911Kid

On s/gts esp base 911 you are getting significant brake upgrade when opting for pccb, for gt3/gt4/spyder that come with 380mm irons, it's more of a 'feel good' upgrade, esp if you are getting a 200k 3rs, that 9k box is no biggie to check. For 100k gt4/spyder it does look a bit pricey but not like it's gonna break the bank either, heart wants what the heart wants right? it's not like you need a 100k mt 2 seater to begin with. So end of day it's all about perceived value, does adding that option make you happy & feel money well spent?

floodtide

My carbon ceramics had a lot life left in them and I put them back on the car before I traded it in on a GT4. I think, but don't know for sure, that the car would have lost some value without the CC brakes

Rennolazine

I still have yet to read a single thread from a guy that smoked through ceramics, then went to the dealer to replace the whole pccb setup. Everyone that tracks seems to either save the pccb for resale at some point (ie the next guy), gets steel rotors for track, or resurface the rotors (carbon transforms).
I would agonize over checking that box for the pccb; the weight savings/perfornance benefits are legit but knowing msrp is 100 makes it a much harder pill to swallow especially when the gt4 is already over braked with the 380s

Yc911Kid

Performance wise there is no debate, pccb outperforms stock irons no doubt, that's why not only they equip press cars with pccb, but also all cars in barber driving schools. If you'd like to claim similar performance, you need to prove it not the other way around. In fact if you take a say b2b 20min session , I bet you will be able to tell the difference yourself.

Pokerhobo

I don't understand the philosophy of buying PCCBs, then taking them off to retain life for resale value. I don't believe you get the full $8k back at sale time anyways. Why buy PCCBs if you don't get to enjoy them? I don't spec my cars for the next guy, so I guess I don't get it.

GrantG

If that is true, wouldn’t it be good to know whether this superior performance is the result of the weight loss of the carbon ceramic rotors or whether the benefit is in the behavior of the different rotor material (or some combination of both)?

It seems to me that there is some evidence (reported from those who run the AP setup) that having an iron setup with similar weight loss to pccb may provide some or all of the benefits without some of pccb’s drawbacks (replacement cost, limited pad choice, having to remove calipers to change pads, limited wheel size options, poor cold/wet performance, less granular modulation, etc).

I only have experience with the stock iron setup (with better fluid and pads), but I’d be tempted to try the AP system or Surface Transforms before PCCB, if I found myself wanting something better than stock irons...

Yc911Kid

I think it's both. There could be some after market setup that may achieve that i've no doubts, but I think we are talking about stock iron vs pccb here.

Croc999

They might be biased, perhaps, but fact is the fact that in racing they use different carbon rotors than used in road cars.
It's just not the same.
I've never experienced carbon brakes but all reviewers like them a lot in road cars (porsche/corvette) - so i assume they're good.
But also endless number of owners who track their cars switch to steel - i guess either due to costs or too short lifespan or both.

Dr.Bill

In the tests I've seen, stopping distance is the same.
Brake fade is slightly better with PCCB, but it takes a lot to get fade with the cast iron rotors with good brake fluid. Particularly on a GT car with massive rotors.
So in practical terms, performance is really not different.

And those who can tell the difference while driving are likely professional drivers. Mere mortals won't notice a few pounds saved.

Jawnathin

The car is technically better with PCCBs but the irons are so oversized it doesn’t matter. One could argue that the huge iron rotors is just added weight and narrows your wheel downsizing options. Remember that a 991.2 GTS with 50hp and 200lbs more has very good braking performance using smaller rotors. The stock irons are plenty capable and buying PCCBs for performance is fixing a problem the car doesn’t have.

Unless you’re purposely trying to abuse them, the irons will work fine. The PCCB option at 8k isn’t a bad deal, it’s the $20k replacement costs that is killer and makes them cost prohibitive to owners taking the car to the track.

Sean in Texas

I never experienced brake fade with the stock iron rotors on my GT3.

I swapped out the stock rotors for the AP OEM replacement, as they were two piece, and cheaper to replace. No difference whatsoever in fade. When my front ceramic pucks cracked, I didn't see the value in replacing the whole caliper, only to do the same thing all over again at some unspecified point in time. I guess I could have rebuilt with stainless pistons, but changing pads was a PITA. I replaced with the AP BBK, which included the flexible lines, and changing pads is pretty danged easy, even for me. I haven't found anyone who has installed it to have a single complaint.

IMO, 'feel' comes down to the pad compound more than anything.

If they turn out to fit the 718, I plan on migrating the system over once I put the GT3 out to a well deserved, pasture retirement. *Jeff will now chime in to say this is a pipe dream*

Nothing but great service from Essex and Apex. They have both been great vendors for me.