msdunkel

I saw one review which severely hammered the gearing and another where the reviewer acknowledged one of the commenters that mentioned the gearing is great for the track but completely inappropriate for the street. The Porsche engineer claims “all the magic happens above 7500 RPM”, but in 2nd gear that means I’ll be doing north of 80 MPH which is just ridiculous for street driving. I believe I read it is the same/similar gearing as the last crop of GT4s and Spyders. If so, can any current owners of those cars chime in? Is this part of Porsche’s plan to keep the 911 great by neutering its more competent little brother or is there something else at work here?

Review 1: Review 2:

Chester7

Long 1st and 2nd gears coupled with engines that lack low-mid rpm torque are not enjoyable unless you rev them. I am torn since I would have willingly bought a 981 GT4 if ground clearance was higher. Instead I bought a 718 GTS. I guess I got used to my modded 944 Turbo that only came alive at high RPM. Coming alive at high RPM is not to be dismissed- and it can make you forgive weak low RPM response.

kfmcmahon

discussed here:



https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/1148...ke-it-out.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-foru...r-gearing.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/964823-gear-ratios.html

MidEngineRules

Porsche does like to neuter things. Porsche naturally neutered the 718 by lopping off 2 cylinders compared to the 991.2. I think drivability (road and track) drove Porsche to give the 981 Spyder/GT4 taller gearing in first and second. The Spyder and GT4 would be hell on tires and perhaps even dangerous if they had shorter first and second gears. Did you ever see the video of the Spyder owner who wiped out a small crowd leaving a cars and coffee event in Idaho I believe? There's a big difference between the 911 and Boxster/Cayman when it comes to traction and control under full power at slow speeds. I can spin up the wheels on my GT4 with Cup2s with ease coming out of tight slow corners. If the gearing was any shorter it would be much harder to accelerate optimally. Having owned a 981 Spyder and currently a 981 GT4, and also having owned the preceding 987 Spyder and Cayman R, I'd say low end torque isn't the issue some make it to be. The 981 3.8 gets a bad rap for low end torque only on forums like this. Porsche gave the 981 3.8 a quickened throttle response, just like they did the Cayman R, which is one reason these cars are such a joy to drive. What always matters is how something is operated. If I drive my wife's 991.2 Targa 4S PDK in normal mode, you'd think the car literally has no power. Gears are being changed at such low rpms the turbo motor develops very little power. In sport or sport plus, you can finally tap into the power but there's noticeable turbo lag to go with it. Buyers get so hung up on peak power numbers when in fact most often you're rarely operating at peak power and if you are, it's for millisecond. How the engine responds on a twisty road is mainly what Porsche is after. NA excels at mid range and high rpms because these cars in particular rev very quickly and linear power is more ideal. But these NA motors also make a lot of noise (which is good noise) but that can be fatiguing to some. With the turbo cars, you still need to give them gobs of throttle to make them move, but the power is very quiet in comparison, and less fatiguing. That's not a bad thing. The Carrera T is the antithesis of the Spyder/GT4 in that it delivers its real thrills at lower speeds where the shorter gearing is very usable, and the 911 weight bias gives it traction that no Boxster/Cayman can match. It's similarly powered to the 981 Spyder/GT4 but the lower gearing and turbos makes for a deceptively quick accelerating car, which is not to be discounted since most of us here live in the US where triple digit speeds can't be achieved legally on public roads. So based on how you like to operate a vehicle, one will be more suitable than the other.

2XIPA

It is for me. That’s why I’m waiting for PDK.

msdunkel

Very interesting. I don’t even know if I’ll get an allocation so this might be a non-issue anyway. I guess I’ll have to wait and see what the car mags say before I make a final decision. Unfortunately a test drive is unlikely, I’m new to my area and new to having enough money to buy any car I want so there’s no relationship with any dealers which means they’re not going to let me test drive that $116k ‘16 Spyder that’s sitting on the 2nd level of their indoor showroom unless that’s the car I’m going to buy. 1st world problems I know, but this issue combined with my proverbial trial by fire of learning the “Porsche buying experience” might lead me to paying MSRP for a Chevy for the 1st time in my life.

worf928

Reach out Porsche owners in your area through Rennlist (981, GT4 forum, etc), PCA, etc. You may be able to find a 981 Spyder owner who would be happy to let you take a supervised drive. Yes, won’t be a 718, but it can get you into the sensory ballpark.

If you are in New England you may be 48 hours from being able to test drive a 981 Spyder.

If you buy your C8 from a high-Corvette-volume dealer you’ll be fine. If however, you buy from your local dealer that mostly sells pick’em up trucks, you’ll be in for a real .... um... treat. Yeah. That’s it. A treat.

msdunkel

Yeah, my local dealer is currently offering an amazing $1k off MSRP on ‘19 ZO6s, I doubt they even sold a single ZR1. I’m also on the ‘vette forums cleverly disguised with the same username, and if I opt for a c8 and can’t get it locally at MSRP I’ll get one from one of the high volume internet guys. Atlanta is a big place and if Southtown won’t play ball there are a few mid-volume guys on the north side.

HamiltonGT4

I have a manual carrera T and it drives really well I’m so happy with it! However I have an itch to switch to a convertible and have the same concerns about the gearing after watching the videos . I’m afraid that I will notice a huge difference. It a hard decision for me and hope I don’t regret the switch. I have a deposit down on a Spyder at my local dealer

worf928

I just spent a hour looking for actual technical specs for the 991’s G91 7-speed and the 6-speed in the 981. And I gave up. Nothing but #$%&ing ads or 100% unrelated sch1+.

Does anyone have a link to either:
- charts with both gear and final drive ratios?
- charts with in-gear top speed?

for both?

If the gearing in the 981 is longer than that in the 991S, then I can see why folks might not like it.

CaymanSinAR

With my manual 981 GTS I shift into each at the following

2nd - 44mph
3rd - 84mph
4th - 113mph
5th - 135mph (this one is a rough approximation as at this speed I start to get tunnel vision)

The fastest I have gone in mine is 162mph and I was in 6th. Please note this was on a 2 mile runway at a decommissioned military base.

I can probably get another mph or two going into 2, 3, and 4, but those are what I shift at without bumping the rev limiter.

donR

If you look at this review, 5000RPM in second gear, which is about where you want to be shifting for max torque, is 50mph. For most track circuits it is going to be fine as you hardly ever get a corner below 50mph anyway and I believe if you wind it out to the 8000RPM rev limit it will hit near 87 mph.

However, for mountain roads 2nd gear its going get a bit bogged down on 35-40mph corners due to the torque dropping off at lower RPM. You can see the reviewer struggling a bit to keep up with the GT3 in front due to using third gear too much out of corners.

Whereas the 718 GTS still has massive torque at 3000RPM so it is going to be better for coming out of corners tight twisting mountain type roads and perhaps the street if you want to drive that way, although I still find the GTS is happier between 4000 RPM and the up to the 7500 red line.

I think PDK with the extra gear should fix this problem in the GT4 for road and mountain type use as described above so I'd sit tight and wait if you want more so a road car than a track car. Or get a GTS manual or PDK.

Otherwise I don't really see the long second gear being a problem on most track circuits. After all Porsche designed the GT4 to excel on the track not the street.

CarAholic

I believe it is a deal breaker for some and that's me included. I specced and owned a 981 GT4 and had it for over two years. While at first the gearing doesn't seem horrible over time it makes a fantastic vehicle just a great one. To some this may not bother. However I drove my car a lot on the streets and the gearing just got tiring as you were hardly ever in that motors sweet spot. The giant torque dip doesn't help either. I bought headers to address this and while it helped it still left you wanting for more. What really sealed it for me was having owned a 991 C2S right before the the Gt4. Where the motor was not hampered by Porsche and it had proper gearing. In that car the motor would scream all the way till redline unlike the GT4 that lost steam on the top end.

I was really wanting a 718 but after I heard the gearing was unchanged, no torque increase, and no tangible difference in the feel of the motor compared to the prior (per reviewers). It was a no go for me and I passed on my allocation. I am staying on the list just Incase the eventual PDK release improves upon this. Just can't see giving Porsche 17% more money for not improving the prior cars biggest downfall.

The C8 was also an eye opener as why would I spend 2x (my spec) the money on the 718 when you get so much bang with that car. While I probably won't be buying a C8 it brought the value equation back into my mind. I would much rather purchase a 991 GT3 for the same or less money then the 718.

worf928

Let’s not turn this into *another* !@#%ing C8 thread *please*!

I’ll see if I can re-dig-up the 991S specs I found the other day.

Spent three hours, highway and back roads, in CarChick’s 991S-MT today. That’s got some long gearing.

worf928

Found this on pistonheads.com. (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...t=1295241&i=20)

Now contemplating its meaning. I will assume for now that it's correct.




EDIT: 991 PDK and MT are identical (in terms of gearing) except for 3rd and 7th. 3rd is higher in the MT, 7th lower.