718 Boxster and 718 Cayman!!!
12-13-2015, 04:36 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
Wait - where does it say that the boxster is finally positioned higher than the cayman? This is a major shift if so!! It obviously has always cost more to make, so the price of the boxster being lower has been so back asswards until now (if this is now the case).
12-13-2015, 05:19 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Look at the first paragraph of the first post on page 1. It's a copy and paste from the Porsche AG press release.
12-14-2015, 01:38 AM
#78
Burning Brakes
I don't believe the 718 Boxster is positioned higher than the 718 Cayman, more like the Cayman won't have a 10 hp advantage and the Boxster will cost more than the Cayman. I doubt the Boxster will have more hp than the Cayman.
12-14-2015, 07:42 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Per Porsche:
"The 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman are showing more similarities – both visual and technical. In the future, both will have equally powerful four-cylinder flat engines with turbocharging. The Roadster will be positioned at a higher price level than the Coupé – as is done for the 911 models. Porsche will introduce the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman over the course of 2016."
12-14-2015, 09:22 AM
#80
Race Car
Performance wise they will be identical... Price wise the boxster will now be more expensive than the Cayman.
Per Porsche:
"The 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman are showing more similarities – both visual and technical. In the future, both will have equally powerful four-cylinder flat engines with turbocharging. The Roadster will be positioned at a higher price level than the Coupé – as is done for the 911 models. Porsche will introduce the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman over the course of 2016."
Per Porsche:
"The 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman are showing more similarities – both visual and technical. In the future, both will have equally powerful four-cylinder flat engines with turbocharging. The Roadster will be positioned at a higher price level than the Coupé – as is done for the 911 models. Porsche will introduce the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman over the course of 2016."
12-14-2015, 11:08 AM
#82
Rennlist Member
There's a lot of anxiety here about the 4-pot engines, but the fact of the matter is that these cars will be a technical improvement over the outgoing models. Just like all the brewhaha when the 911 went turbo - everyone complained until the reviews came in and those that have driven the thing all say it's brilliant.
Porsche knows how to do a turbocharged engine right. The car will weigh less and handle better. It will be a major step up dynamically and therefore it will score high marks with reviewers.
We can lament the loss of character with the loss of 2-cylinders, but if these cars are anything less than awesome to drive I'll eat my hat.
Porsche knows how to do a turbocharged engine right. The car will weigh less and handle better. It will be a major step up dynamically and therefore it will score high marks with reviewers.
We can lament the loss of character with the loss of 2-cylinders, but if these cars are anything less than awesome to drive I'll eat my hat.
12-14-2015, 12:28 PM
#83
There's a lot of anxiety here about the 4-pot engines, but the fact of the matter is that these cars will be a technical improvement over the outgoing models. Just like all the brewhaha when the 911 went turbo - everyone complained until the reviews came in and those that have driven the thing all say it's brilliant.
Porsche knows how to do a turbocharged engine right. The car will weigh less and handle better. It will be a major step up dynamically and therefore it will score high marks with reviewers.
We can lament the loss of character with the loss of 2-cylinders, but if these cars are anything less than awesome to drive I'll eat my hat.
Porsche knows how to do a turbocharged engine right. The car will weigh less and handle better. It will be a major step up dynamically and therefore it will score high marks with reviewers.
We can lament the loss of character with the loss of 2-cylinders, but if these cars are anything less than awesome to drive I'll eat my hat.
I don't doubt that Porsche will do something special, but it is going to be a big challenge, not just to make this car great, but to market it effectively. A much bigger challenge, IMO, than the 991.2. I'm hoping the motor is really something special, technically and performance wise.
12-14-2015, 02:37 PM
#84
Burning Brakes
There's a lot of anxiety here about the 4-pot engines, but the fact of the matter is that these cars will be a technical improvement over the outgoing models. Just like all the brewhaha when the 911 went turbo - everyone complained until the reviews came in and those that have driven the thing all say it's brilliant.
Porsche knows how to do a turbocharged engine right. The car will weigh less and handle better. It will be a major step up dynamically and therefore it will score high marks with reviewers.
We can lament the loss of character with the loss of 2-cylinders, but if these cars are anything less than awesome to drive I'll eat my hat.
Porsche knows how to do a turbocharged engine right. The car will weigh less and handle better. It will be a major step up dynamically and therefore it will score high marks with reviewers.
We can lament the loss of character with the loss of 2-cylinders, but if these cars are anything less than awesome to drive I'll eat my hat.
The 911.2 reviews are not all brilliant, are they? Yes, the engine has more torque on low revs. But, it's lost its characteristic sound, and ~1000 rpm on top (not the redline, but where max power is produced). Read Andrew Frankels review. No question it's a very good car. But there are a lot of very good cars around and for me it needs to be a lot more than very good to justify this spending level on a "toy".
And spending (in my case, with my 981.1 CGTS) ~95k€ on a 4cyl car will never happen, no matter how much lighter (although that's not sure yet, is it? Turbos, intercoolers, piping weigh quite a lot) or how much more "dynamic" it will be.
I have nothing against 4-cyl engines per se. I have an 2012 MX-5 in the garage also. Brilliant car and 60% of the fun of a Porsche, to a quarter of the cost
But that proves the point - if Porsche presented the 718s and said they will cost 35-40k$, that would probably kill the MX-5, GT-86, BRZ, WRX market. Now, when trying to stay at the same, or maybe slightly higher, price point, in a range where most buyers are probably not that price sensitive, but highly emotional, they will have a problem. For me, I am very happy to have got an allocation for a 6cyl NA CGTS, a car which I hopefully will keep forever. If I wouldn't have got that allocation, I would probably have saved a year more and tried to get a GT4 or a used 911.1 GTS.
12-14-2015, 04:32 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
But that last part is the biggest part of the equation for a lot of people. Name me three really good 4-cylinder turbo sports cars on the market today? Name me one worth spending $80k+?
I don't doubt that Porsche will do something special, but it is going to be a big challenge, not just to make this car great, but to market it effectively. A much bigger challenge, IMO, than the 991.2. I'm hoping the motor is really something special, technically and performance wise.
I don't doubt that Porsche will do something special, but it is going to be a big challenge, not just to make this car great, but to market it effectively. A much bigger challenge, IMO, than the 991.2. I'm hoping the motor is really something special, technically and performance wise.
Well, you might want to get the spices out... Depending on where you're coming from, of course...
The 911.2 reviews are not all brilliant, are they? Yes, the engine has more torque on low revs. But, it's lost its characteristic sound, and ~1000 rpm on top (not the redline, but where max power is produced). Read Andrew Frankels review. No question it's a very good car. But there are a lot of very good cars around and for me it needs to be a lot more than very good to justify this spending level on a "toy".
And spending (in my case, with my 981.1 CGTS) ~95k€ on a 4cyl car will never happen, no matter how much lighter (although that's not sure yet, is it? Turbos, intercoolers, piping weigh quite a lot) or how much more "dynamic" it will be.
I have nothing against 4-cyl engines per se. I have an 2012 MX-5 in the garage also. Brilliant car and 60% of the fun of a Porsche, to a quarter of the cost
But that proves the point - if Porsche presented the 718s and said they will cost 35-40k$, that would probably kill the MX-5, GT-86, BRZ, WRX market. Now, when trying to stay at the same, or maybe slightly higher, price point, in a range where most buyers are probably not that price sensitive, but highly emotional, they will have a problem. For me, I am very happy to have got an allocation for a 6cyl NA CGTS, a car which I hopefully will keep forever. If I wouldn't have got that allocation, I would probably have saved a year more and tried to get a GT4 or a used 911.1 GTS.
The 911.2 reviews are not all brilliant, are they? Yes, the engine has more torque on low revs. But, it's lost its characteristic sound, and ~1000 rpm on top (not the redline, but where max power is produced). Read Andrew Frankels review. No question it's a very good car. But there are a lot of very good cars around and for me it needs to be a lot more than very good to justify this spending level on a "toy".
And spending (in my case, with my 981.1 CGTS) ~95k€ on a 4cyl car will never happen, no matter how much lighter (although that's not sure yet, is it? Turbos, intercoolers, piping weigh quite a lot) or how much more "dynamic" it will be.
I have nothing against 4-cyl engines per se. I have an 2012 MX-5 in the garage also. Brilliant car and 60% of the fun of a Porsche, to a quarter of the cost
But that proves the point - if Porsche presented the 718s and said they will cost 35-40k$, that would probably kill the MX-5, GT-86, BRZ, WRX market. Now, when trying to stay at the same, or maybe slightly higher, price point, in a range where most buyers are probably not that price sensitive, but highly emotional, they will have a problem. For me, I am very happy to have got an allocation for a 6cyl NA CGTS, a car which I hopefully will keep forever. If I wouldn't have got that allocation, I would probably have saved a year more and tried to get a GT4 or a used 911.1 GTS.
Clearly Porsche understands that this is going to be a hard sell, hence the marketing guff we have seen so far. But if we get a decent sounding torquey motor with a linear response curve and more power, the essential elements that make the 981 platform desirable will remain and what we will get is the best 981 yet.
I am ready to eat my hat though. I just hope I don't have to.
12-14-2015, 05:26 PM
#86
Burning Brakes
Performance wise they will be identical... Price wise the boxster will now be more expensive than the Cayman.
Per Porsche:
"The 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman are showing more similarities – both visual and technical. In the future, both will have equally powerful four-cylinder flat engines with turbocharging. The Roadster will be positioned at a higher price level than the Coupé – as is done for the 911 models. Porsche will introduce the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman over the course of 2016."
Per Porsche:
"The 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman are showing more similarities – both visual and technical. In the future, both will have equally powerful four-cylinder flat engines with turbocharging. The Roadster will be positioned at a higher price level than the Coupé – as is done for the 911 models. Porsche will introduce the 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman over the course of 2016."
12-14-2015, 05:54 PM
#87
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rocky Mountain High
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just spoke with someone who attended the dealer launch event for the 991.2 cars. There is usually a special "guest appearance" car at these launch events, and this year the car was the 718. Nobody was allowed to drive the cars, but they were started up - and the report is that there's "nothing to worry about as far as the sound goes" for these cars. And this is someone who recommends getting a GT4 as the last, best example of mid-engine Porsche NA platform outside of the supercars.
12-14-2015, 06:45 PM
#88
Banned
On this side of the pond I will listen to Pete Stout...the car sounds very promising and the reasons for that would mostly carry over to a 718.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
On the other hand I am not selling the 981 Spyder or 993.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
On the other hand I am not selling the 981 Spyder or 993.
12-15-2015, 12:41 AM
#89
Three Wheelin'
That is interesting! So far the indications are that the GT/Spyder models will stay NA for at least one more cycle. Possibly, the regs are tightening and the time lines are shortening. I am still sticking my neck out and predicting that the next gen GT/Spyder will stay NA; just once. After that, they will switch to turbo and the regular models will switch to hybrid (possibly alongside turbo models).
12-15-2015, 01:48 AM
#90
Race Director
That is interesting! So far the indications are that the GT/Spyder models will stay NA for at least one more cycle. Possibly, the regs are tightening and the time lines are shortening. I am still sticking my neck out and predicting that the next gen GT/Spyder will stay NA; just once. After that, they will switch to turbo and the regular models will switch to hybrid (possibly alongside turbo models).