Mission R = Cayman E
09-08-2021, 01:11 AM
#31
I just want to mention that new batteries are high in the R&D agenda.
Here is one below, but there is a lot of other development like sodium-ion batteries, bulk metallic glasses for casings, graphene electrodes, and on and on. We should have longer lasting and quick charging batteries to market soon.
Ex: The graphene aluminum-ion battery cells from the Brisbane-based Graphene Manufacturing Group (GMG) are claimed to charge up to 60 times faster than the best lithium-ion cells and hold three time the energy of the best aluminum-based cells.May 13, 2021
Here is one below, but there is a lot of other development like sodium-ion batteries, bulk metallic glasses for casings, graphene electrodes, and on and on. We should have longer lasting and quick charging batteries to market soon.
Ex: The graphene aluminum-ion battery cells from the Brisbane-based Graphene Manufacturing Group (GMG) are claimed to charge up to 60 times faster than the best lithium-ion cells and hold three time the energy of the best aluminum-based cells.May 13, 2021
Last edited by aCayenneFan; 09-08-2021 at 01:12 AM.
09-08-2021, 01:11 AM
#32
Why not? EV’s can absolutely be fun to drive and they can handle very well. What it loses in engine noise it makes up for in acceleration, powertrain response, and balance. I used to have the same attitude until I spent some time actually driving some EV’s.
09-08-2021, 01:41 AM
#33
Precisely. Aside from being impeccable with their timing and model positioning, they're doing something very subtle here. They didn’t make this car so compact for nothing. You display first that the tech can prove itself on track and then you trickle into production vehicles. While I don’t really get production vibes from this concept [and obviously the 718 won’t have 1000bhp] it’s in the ballpark. Porsche did say this is a new niche so I wouldn’t assume too much in the way of their usual concept to production routine.
The battery/factory you mentioned is for relatively low volume production so it’s likely geared towards the new Hypercar collab with Rimac/Bugatti.
The battery/factory you mentioned is for relatively low volume production so it’s likely geared towards the new Hypercar collab with Rimac/Bugatti.
09-08-2021, 01:44 AM
#34
If they can do that with such a compact platform, imagine what they could do with a new supercar. They’re going to have to implement some kind of new safety protocols, given this type of acceleration could seriously affect someone’s health
09-08-2021, 01:45 AM
#35
That and you’ll be able to program any soundscape into these new cars that you want.
09-08-2021, 01:50 AM
#37
Indeed.
This is a common misconception. We all used to the Moore's Law, where number of transistors on a chip (and thus the performance) doubles every two years. Battery technology is not like that. There's a hard theoretical limit on battery energy density, based on physics. Under the best conditions, the battery energy density is still roughly twenty (20) times lower than gasoline. Yes, electrical motors are more efficient in converting energy and they are lighter, but any electric car will still remain a terrible racing platform.
The key to racing performance is the consistency of a powertrain. Racing relies on making small incremental improvements (aero/suspension tweaks, tire compounds, racing line, etc. etc.) while the powertrain delivers constant performance minute after minute, hour after hour. How you going to improve your setup if you need to stop for recharging (or worse, battery change) every 30 min, and even during each lap your energy delivery is constantly changing due to battery degradation and overheating?
There is a reason Formula E is a flop, there will never be an electric LeMans24 winner. Fully electric drivetrains are good for mail delivery trucks and golf carts. When racing, end especially endurance racing is concerned, electric cars will always remain inferior. This is especially true for clubsport racing. Modern race cars are already complex enough, now imagine requiring a dual PhD in Electrical Engineering and Materials Science just to troubleshoot your battery pack.
And then there's safety. A regular car, drained of fuel, is 100% inert. You can store it, transport it, work on in and be 100% safe. Electric car is a chemical bomb ready to go off anytime without warning, and you can't even use water to put out the fire.
This is a common misconception. We all used to the Moore's Law, where number of transistors on a chip (and thus the performance) doubles every two years. Battery technology is not like that. There's a hard theoretical limit on battery energy density, based on physics. Under the best conditions, the battery energy density is still roughly twenty (20) times lower than gasoline. Yes, electrical motors are more efficient in converting energy and they are lighter, but any electric car will still remain a terrible racing platform.
The key to racing performance is the consistency of a powertrain. Racing relies on making small incremental improvements (aero/suspension tweaks, tire compounds, racing line, etc. etc.) while the powertrain delivers constant performance minute after minute, hour after hour. How you going to improve your setup if you need to stop for recharging (or worse, battery change) every 30 min, and even during each lap your energy delivery is constantly changing due to battery degradation and overheating?
There is a reason Formula E is a flop, there will never be an electric LeMans24 winner. Fully electric drivetrains are good for mail delivery trucks and golf carts. When racing, end especially endurance racing is concerned, electric cars will always remain inferior. This is especially true for clubsport racing. Modern race cars are already complex enough, now imagine requiring a dual PhD in Electrical Engineering and Materials Science just to troubleshoot your battery pack.
And then there's safety. A regular car, drained of fuel, is 100% inert. You can store it, transport it, work on in and be 100% safe. Electric car is a chemical bomb ready to go off anytime without warning, and you can't even use water to put out the fire.
09-08-2021, 01:51 AM
#38
I personally wouldn't bet against national policies meant to foster replacement of ICE-powered cars by BEVs. Major manufacturers on both sides of the pond are announcing migration of new vehicle production to BEVs. When you consider the Billions of $ that are being allocated to building out a charging infrastructure and incentives for innovation in battery technology, it is only a matter of when, not whether. There will invariably be stumbles along the way, but the future is electric, IMO.
Not if eFuels have anything to say about it.
09-08-2021, 01:52 AM
#39
It may just be time for that model to evolve into something else.
Last edited by Porschian; 09-08-2021 at 09:14 AM.
09-08-2021, 02:08 AM
#40
Might as well close the forum then.
Last edited by Hurs; 09-08-2021 at 02:13 AM.
09-08-2021, 08:51 AM
#41
See, this is what I mean when I say that people seem to not understand the fundamental issues behind battery technology. Why would "development like sodium-ion batteries" would result in longer lasting batteries?!? Sodium-based batteries by definition will have lower energy density and operating voltage than lithium-based one. Aluminium is even worse than sodium. This is basic chemistry. The electron configuration of sodium, its position in the periodic table of elements is not going to suddenly change, no matter how many press-releases are published.
The only advantage of sodium-ion batteries is because sodium, unlike lithium, is abundant and therefore cheap. It might be useful for large-scale energy grid storage applications where lithium would be prohibitively expensive. For advanced automotive applications sodium is terrible.
The only advantage of sodium-ion batteries is because sodium, unlike lithium, is abundant and therefore cheap. It might be useful for large-scale energy grid storage applications where lithium would be prohibitively expensive. For advanced automotive applications sodium is terrible.
09-08-2021, 09:14 AM
#42
Having spent over twenty years in global advanced manufacturing R&D, I do understand the fundamental issues, lol. You totally missed the point. There is R&D all over the globe working on these issues. BTW, the Brisbane group might disagree with your off-the-cuff assessment of aluminum in batteries.
09-08-2021, 01:55 PM
#43
Having spent over twenty years in global advanced manufacturing R&D, I do understand the fundamental issues, lol. You totally missed the point. There is R&D all over the globe working on these issues. BTW, the Brisbane group might disagree with your off-the-cuff assessment of aluminum in batteries.
The sooner the politicians and general public understand that, the better. Under 5 min charging time wil not happen. Over 500 miles on one charge will not happen. Full-electric LeMans winner will not happen. Despite the annual multi-million public letter-writing campaign, there is no Santa Claus.
Last edited by Hurs; 09-08-2021 at 02:07 PM.
09-08-2021, 02:45 PM
#44
Having also spent over twenty years in global advanced chemical R&D, I also understand that no self-respecting R&D manager will turn down the opportunity to get funding. Politicians and business execs are now throwing money at battery research, of course people will be working on it. It still does not mean that they will somehow manage to re-invent the periodic table.
The sooner the politicians and general public understand that, the better. Under 5 min charging time wil not happen. Over 500 miles on one charge will not happen. Full-electric LeMans winner will not happen. Despite the annual multi-million public letter-writing campaign, there is no Santa Claus.
The sooner the politicians and general public understand that, the better. Under 5 min charging time wil not happen. Over 500 miles on one charge will not happen. Full-electric LeMans winner will not happen. Despite the annual multi-million public letter-writing campaign, there is no Santa Claus.
As a side note, your 500 mile comment has already been disproven by Lucid Air per Motor Trend. If Jonny Lieberman himself saw 490 miles in real world use, then I have zero doubt it will happen.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-photos-video/
09-08-2021, 03:35 PM
#45
Yeah, I'd wait for an official EPA test to celebrate 500 miles achievement. But the fact that Lucid Air nearly went bankrupt trying to hit 500 miles mark should tell you something. Maybe 500 miles range in a $150,000 car will be enough to finally alleviate "range anxiety" of top 1% of population..