forevermanual

Hi everyone! The both parts of the video that is dedicated to the build are finally here.
The whole point of buying base model is in keeping it simple in my opinion.

PART ONE


PART TWO


Here’s the link to my Porsche Code.
Please don’t hesitate to share yours🤗
Thank you for all the comments especially those on T model — made me rethinking my perception of it.
As people tend to order bunch of options anyway, it is logical for Porsche to exploit the opportunity.
No harm is done.

For more Aventurine Green 718 pictures join me on Instagram forevermanual

CaymanMatt

I would add PASM, Sport Chrono, Multi-function steering wheel, Instrument Dials in White IF you're colorblind. I'll followup if you need why I think this.
If you need to pay for those elsewhere, delete Power Steering Plus, and Sport Tailpipes in Black. They don't bring any added performance and the steering is fine without PS+. That can be added after if really needed.
MOO & FWIW

Edited: Have you already ordered & received your car? If so, ignore the above.

bgsntth

I added the 14-way seats for the 4-way lumbar support and the Bose because the base stereo in my base 2007 Cayman was pathetic. I regret not getting the PTV, as my favorite road (Bolinas-Fairfax Rd.) contains many low-speed first gear turns, and I am constantly spinning the inside tire accelerating out of the turns. I drive with the traction control off, as the constant intervention is bothersome and not needed - balance is amazing.

Again - bravo for speccing 18" wheels. I do not think folks truly appreciate all of the advantages, especially as the tires are the same width.

Enjoy your videos.

worf928

Oh? Why’s that?

forevermanual

They may find the lighter base car more natural and harmonious👍🏻

worf928

Or maybe they won’t.

This, written by some that thoroughly exercised a base at PEC-ATL and bought a T.

Natural and harmonious. LoL. You haven’t driven a T have you?

The only ‘waste’ is 20” wheels. But, that ship sailed a long time ago due to marketing focus groups.

forevermanual

The T isn’t available on our market but it’s built using preexisted components and anybody who encountered a 718 with SC, -20mm PASM and 20 inch wheels is able to imagine what is a T like to drive. Man I’m using the same 300 hp motor on a lighter car and there’s barely enough power to cope with the chassis potential. Can’t imagine how getting more grip does any good. Hey, no offense, the T is a great package if you want all that excessive stuff anyways and you are happy with a color choice. I’m just sharing my personal discovery of the base manual car that happened to be a surprisingly pure everyday city experience using the same motor without adding any weight and complications. And as a journalist I have to make a note for potential manual T buyers that caught your attention. To be honest there’re two strong selling points for a manual T: the PCM delete package and full bucket seats — none of that is available for standard car anymore and — surprise! — none is chosen by majority of T customers. For them the dealbreaker is the T tag making that car more special. And you’ve already called the 20’ wheels that the whole package is built around a waste. This isn’t a good sign for me either. Tell me what you think, please.

Note: This post is edited to make it less pretentious 🤗

Blink982

I bought a T, albeit with PDK because it had all the driving toys inc. -20mm PASM and 20" wheels as standard. The 18" wheels might make sense due to weight but they aren't very pretty to look at and the standard 19" options on the Boxster S and Cayman S aren't up to much either, which is probably why most people option the 20" wheels. IMHO they look smarter and there is more choice and ultimately, wheels can make or break the look of a car. I didn't spec carbon buckets as £4k on a base/T car is a waste but that's just my opinion. Build options are personal taste and everyone's needs are different. I hate the whole resale argument. Just spec the car with the options that will make your time with the car more enjoyable and stuff what anyone else thinks.

rjag2034

Add sport chrono and Bose. I think especially if you are looking at the 2.0 the sport chrono will really shine

Z3papa

Certain options were absolutely required -- PTV, Sport Chrono, PASM and PDK, All came at a 66% discount on the GTS and T packages. That made my searches easier. You still have to do VIN decoder on every car because they are a la carte but still, certain options are key.

worf928

Ok. So, you haven't driven one.

Have you driven a Base with PVT and PASM? SC?

Right. On an objective basis the decision to buy a Base or a T comes down to: "would you order a base with PVT, PASM, SC, and Sport Seats Plus?"

If the answer is yes, then why not buy a T?

On a subjective basis some might consider the T's standard interior to be superior to the Base's standard interior.

There are other subjective differences, but as they are a matter of taste I will not enumerate them.

Except that the chance of encountering such a beast is exactly zero since you cannot get SPASM (-20 mm PASM in your terminology, but it is a bit more than simply lowered) on the Base.

Further, I have been watching the on-dealer-lot 718s for two years prior to my ordering my T. Not once did I find a Base with PVT, PASM, Sport Seats Plus.

Grip for cornering and braking has nothing to with horsepower. Grip as it convolves with horsepower is about acceleration.

In any case, why would a Base have materially less grip than a T? All of the wheel choices are shod with 235/265 front/rear. One can argue that there's a larger contact patch with the 20" wheels even though the tire width is the same and one would be correct. However, the longitudinal increase in the patch size isn't much.

So, sure, the T has smidgen more grip than a Base with standard wheels. Which is a good thing if you look towards grip for purposes other than acceleration.

"Excessive" is a trigger word. You're trying to get the masses to rise up against the PASM/PVT/SC-driving bourgeoisie?

Driving a Porsche is excessive when a used VW Polo will do. Is it materially less excessive or better for the planet or better protective of children to drive a Porsche without a limited slip differential?

Unnecessary. Yes. That works. Is PASM or PVT or SC necessary? No. Probably not. Depends upon intended use.

One man's "unnecessary" is another man's "necessary." With functional Porsche options, I find that more often that not, trigger words like "excessive", "wasteful", and even "unnecessary", are terms used to signify lack of personal experience, ignorance of function or a budget. Experience can be gained. Ignorance is curable. Budgets are unfortunate but real.

I quite enjoyed my 1.5 hours in a Base via the Porsche Experience at Porsche Center Atlanta. This, after 1.5 hours in a 2.5 GTS on the same day. I also 'discovered' how good the Base 718 is.

There is nothing at all 'wrong' with a Base. I took issue with your original "Potential T Manual owners need to test drive base model more vigorously before proceeding with the order" since the implication is that there's something 'wrong' or 'stupid' with the T model. You fell for my trap.

And without the benefit of the functionality those 'complications' bring.

Let's take PASM: The standard suspension is stiffer than PASM in comfort mode and softer than PASM in sport mode. This is not theory.

It is also something you can feel in your seat when you drive both suspension types on the same streets. It's the same 'feeling' for 981s, 991s, 718s. PASM provides more 'dynamic range' for varying road conditions. PDCC on the 911s increases the dynamic range even more but with almost-excessive () cost and increased complexity and more failure modes. (Not as bad as air suspension on Macans and Peppers though...)

Thus, since PASM in comfort mode is a bit softer, I would argue that PASM makes the car better for the "everyday city experience" unless your city streets are as flat as billiard tables. Somehow I doubt that's the case in Moscow. Lot's of cobble stone streets still. Yes?

But, when you want a bit more 'sporty' in the ride quality you can press a button and make the suspension stiffer than the Base suspension.

Let's parse out "weight" next:

The Base (Cayman) weighs (in the U.S. Market) 3034 pounds while the Cayman T weight 3064 pounds. These weights are for each car with no options.

So the T weights a HUGE 30 pounds (13.6 KG) more than a base. In proportional terms the T weights 0.99% more than a Base.

Vitaly Petrov or Daniil Kvyat might be able to tell the difference in weight on a race track.

The weight difference is a non-issue in the real world.

I'll give you the 'complication' factor however. PASM struts, active motor mounts, etc., are all quite a bit more expensive when they fail and they have more failure modes than 'normal' struts and mounts.

It's a trade off I am willing to make for the increased functionality and dynamic range of the T. Do your viewers get to make that informed choice? Or do they just choose between 'excessive' and 'proletariat'?

PVT: If you intend to only use your 718 as a 'grocery getter' and will never do any 'fun' things like track days or auto-cross then you will never notice it missing. Some will not notice it missing on the track either...

However, for whatever reasons, the secondary market (at least in the US) prizes PVT beyond it's option value. It's one of very few, maybe the only option, that I would recommend specifying on an order for those that don't know what it is but foresee selling the car in a few years.


Moving weight further from the axis of rotation increases moment of inertia. It takes more force to accelerate that rotating mass further out on the lever arm. Thus the larger wheel results is less of the engine's power transmitted to the tire contact patch.

Based upon my own dynamometer runs, my personal rule of thumb is that each inch in wheel diameter increase results in a loss of about 1% of wheel horsepower. A long time ago, I did the math and came up with a more precise series of numbers. It's not linear of course, but 1% per inch is pretty close for 16" to 20" wheels.

There is also an effect on suspension movement due to the increased inertia of the rotating wheel and tire.

1% power loss is basically nothing.

Another concern is that decreased sidewall height of 20" tires results in a slightly stiffer suspension and that the risk of wheel damage from potholes is increased. The first is offset by the ability to run slightly reduced pressure with the 20" wheels while the risk of the latter is increased for the same reason.

A perfect "City" 718 is thus, by the above logic, a Base with PASM and 18" wheels. Then add seats to match butts and whatever other options make 'city' driving bearable. Ventilated seats? Etc. Add PTV if planning on selling in a few years.

This is a case where objective reasons to prefer 19" (or 18") over 20" wheels are far outweighed by the subjective. If I could have ordered 19" Carrera Sport wheels I would have. But, the esthetics of the 20" Carrera Sport wheels outweigh the 1% additional "goodness" of the (ugly to me) 19" (and 18") wheels.

My piqued interest stems from this quote:

... lighter base car... well by less than one percent. A 3% to 5% difference, or more, is worth mentioning. Given that the actual difference is 0.99% calling out the 'lightness' of the Base 718 vis-à-vis the T is misleading at best.

Next, how does PASM make the 718 feel less 'natural?' Or less harmonious? Or PVT? Or SC? Or Sport Seats Plus? Those are evocative word choices. What's their context? You attempt to bring strong feelings to the mind of your viewers yes? But either you can explain why those words are meaningful or you can't. And if you can't then you prey upon readers who haven't driven both. In your case, since you haven't driven a T or a Base with T options (it seems) I find the use of "more natural and harmonious" as a way to provoke disinterest in the T as borderline dishonesty.

If you'd written that the Base - without all of those 'complicated' options - is less expensive to acquire and maintain than the T then I'd agree. If you'd driven both a T and Base and had been able to describe natural and harmonious in ways that made sense then I'd not argue (as much.)

forevermanual

Dear Worf928,

Thank you so much for all this hard work you’ve done here breaking down my post word by word 🤗I’ve learned a bunch of interesting topics to address in my future videos.

There’s plenty of common sense in what you’re saying. Few questions that are raised however can be answered by watching the channel, some contain answers within themselves.

My main point remains unchanged: Porsche’s marketing is historically brilliant in making you buy things you don’t necessarily need. I see my mission in dragging as much attention to a base model that definitely deserves better recognition in this short period of production time left before it all doesn’t matter in 2023. I’m sorry if your beloved T got under the fire, although it’s true that I consider it a pure product of marketing.

After years of driving PASM cars I deliberately got myself a non PASM one — risky enterprise based on the advice from Porsche engineers only — and it turned out to be worth mentioning to anybody who believes that Porsches MUST be equipped with adaptive struts. No they don’t. You can save money and have as much fun on standard suspension without adding software and hardware trickery to what is already a bloody brilliant car.

I’ll share my final verdict on a SC package in a manual car as soon as we compare two of base cars side by side. Fortunately there is an opportunity for this. For the time being I think you don’t need it if you know how to do heel-toeing already since the Sport/S+ mapping are claimed to be universal across the range apart from the auto-blipping function. Not having SC makes one learn quicker to become a better driver then 😀

Finally my belief is that Porsche should separate PTV (you call it PVT for some reason) option with PASM and sell them separately as it happened before. I spoke to Walliser (head of 718/911 program) about it: he explained that it’s difficult to accomplish due to specific nature of the homologation procedures that require some options get packed together for the sake of costs cutting…

The base car isn’t perfect and it has plenty of the room for improvement. For instance with no choice to avoid PASM I face some investment into swapping the gearbox later if the installing of the limited slip diff becomes a necessity... But that’s a topic for a different conversation…

Once again thanks for all the tips — hope you’ll feel your influence watching forevermanual channel!

bgsntth

Completely align on Porsche needing to change the required PASM to get PTV. I need all the ground clearance and travel of the standard suspension, but need PTV on the roads are regularly play upon.

nineball

my thoughts....

i spec'd my '17 CS with every performance option, including 18 way seats, except for PCCB, specifically because i track a lot. a whole lot. i knew i would be changing and eating brakes so i didn't want that bill. if i were to do it over i WOULD NOT get PTV, and that is from an instructor. sure, in theory it helps but it eats brake pads like a starving fat kid with cake. on stock pads and rotors i would get 3-4 days of track use before the rear pads were gone from new. i would wear out rear pads more than twice as fast as the front, which is kinda comical since it's the opposite of every car on the road while traction control can be turned off PTV never can be. YMMV.

the cooled seats are a nice novelty but they don't really do much imho. you can feel them sucking the air when they turn on but within a minute or so it really doesn't make a difference, at least to me.

forevermanual

spot on!