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Of course it’s not going to be the 718 owners who are the ones complaining about the 4 cil and the sound. They still bought it anyhow. It’s the ones that didn’t buy it ...
Yes, the hold-outs that Porsche just needs to please, somehow, someway. They may or they may not.... Porsche just gave all of you six lovers a GT4 and a Spyder... and priced it properly to defend 718 GTS values. Porsche did their job.
You've ignited my Libertarian streak.... All of the objections (F4 Turbo, particulate filters, weak low-end torque driven by small displacement, all electric Porsches) have a common root cause- regulation. As you go to sleep at night give thanks to our insightful, informed, unbiased regulators. They know what is best for us.
I was in the dealer the other day, and they of course were trying to sell me a new car. I asked what trade value they would give me for my 2018 718 Cayman GTS with 8k miles ($91k sticker). They offered me $64k. I was shocked. So shocked that I took it to CarMax and Texas Auto Direct and they were $64k and $63k as well.
High depreciation on these GTS's may further dissuade people from trading up to the new GT4.
However, most 718's were highly discounted at sale. The $91K sticker price is meaningless if you paid $82K, for arguments sake. Then a $64k price would be a quite expected depreciation in the real world.
From this morning's run, man they are capable, I do admit @1.32 I slided a bit so I think the limit is 1.25 or so, still incredible.
Was putting my car up for sale to get a 981 spyder, but now having serious second thought. Maybe I will just add a sport cat downpipe to improve the sound & get my NA fix by adding a gt3...
Honestly I think people are missing the intent of a car like the gt4 if the main concern is ultimate power. A car like the gt4/spyder is designed for driving pleasure with a focus on overall sensory connection to the car. Its not always about being the fastest, most powerful, or most comfortable but rather the most enjoyable for someone who truly loved driving and feeling connected to their car.
Most people seem to be entirely consumed in lap time comparisons and HP wars nowadays yet these same people will likely never even take their car on a track. Porsche is one of the only brands that seemingly listens to enthusiasts and makes cars that appeal to their emotional connection to the vehicle. Look at the glowing reviews of the carerra T for example. Its not a world beater but its fun to drive and offers an increased connection from the driver to the car. Porsche GT cars do the same with the benefit of actual track performance added (if you are into tracking your car or simply knowing what its capable of).
I honestly dont understand the hate for this car at all. Im sure once the automotive journalists get their hands on them and the rave reviews start pouring in then people will change their tunes.
Well said. Although the reviews aren't so flattering on the new GT4/Spyder thus far. But why should they be? What other company dips 4 years into the past to marginally improve something? It's a stale concept even though Porsche blended the new two this time yielding different ultimate character : Spyder now much more hard edged and the GT4 softened. I doubt Porsche will sell enough to have made the venture worth it unless Porsche breaks character and offers them for model years beyond what they usually have done with previous offerings. Current Spyder and GT4 owners aren't' looking to change up in measurable numbers either that I can tell. I also fully concur with your assessment of the Carrera T. It's the only 911 which provides for a viable option for those who love the Boxster/Cayman platform. Not the quickest around, but the chassis is much more adaptive to the real world. Much more livable. And finally a Porsche with real world gearing. Had Porsche put the 3 liter turbo in the 718 then people would be screaming for it.
I had a 2018 Boxster GTS for one day as a service loaner. I am very impressed.
It is a sweet little car, smooth, comfortable, and very powerful for the street.
GTS models are suppose to be a bit more sporty than the S but not as raw as a GT car. Boxster GTS fits the slot well.
GTS or GT4 really depends on the purpose of your purchase
Having owned a 981 GT4, I can say it is nowhere as usable on the street as the 718 GTS.
GT4 is noisy, stiff; the clutch is heavy, the powerband is above 4K and you don't have much low-end torque to give you punchy acceleration.
In comparison, 718 GTS is much more comfortable, quieter, with easy torque to drive and feel fast.
If you want to enjoy the GT4, you have to push it hard: hit high rpm, and stay in that range. Then the power delivery becomes strong, linear and immediate. The sound gets louder, the tone is way more open and metallic.
This is where the GT4 becomes more enjoyable than the 718 GTS. Even if they are equally fast, GT4 is raw, direct and delivers relatively 'unfiltered' driving experience. (I still believe GT4 is faster with the right settings and a good driver lol)
However, you can't do this on the street. What makes GT4 special is also what makes it not so good for the street.
If I can only choose one, I'd pick the GT4.................. for the weekend and get a normal car for boring daily duty.
Also very well said. I do constantly read comments about engine torque irrespective to gearing, which is a miscue. The only reason the GT4 feels flat at lower rpms in predominantly 1st and 2nd gear is due to the tall gearing. The engine has amazing throttle response as it should since it's track focused. Also, being the mid engine platform, traction is considerably less than a 911. Had Porsche given the Spyder/GT4 gearing such as a Carrera T I can only imagine how much wheel spin you'd get under WOT. With that, you have to operate it more like a motorcycle and forget driving around in the wrong (higher) gears if you want to feel it pull in gear.
Aesthetically there's no comparison between the 981/982 Spyder/GT4 and any 981/982 sibling. Or viscerally for that matter.
I'm thinking they're two different cars for two different purposes. I admit that I've been thinking a lot about the GTS lately. I've only been in the S and loved it. But I'm still leaning towards, and waiting for, the Spyder. I'm thinking the GT3 suspension coupled with (hopefully available) PDK may be the AX weapon I've been dreaming about for quite some time. Time will tell. I'll vote with my $ when the time comes.
I'm thinking the GT3 suspension coupled with (hopefully available) PDK may be the AX weapon I've been dreaming about for quite some time.
We'll see.
Strictly for autocross I'd probably lean towards the GTS. At least for what we have locally. A lot of small, tight courses. The lower torque curve of the GTS will really help pull out of corners.
Granted I'm thinking of my 981 GTS (rather than GT4/Spyder) compared to a 718 S/GTS, and manual compared to PDK.
Having experienced my 981 GTS on track and autocross as well as the 718 S/GTS I can get back in my car, drive a course and think, "Damn. If I were in that 718 GTS right now I'd be pulling so much harder/faster out of this corner."
If you are coming from a 4 cyl turbo world, sound might not matter much, but if coming from a Porsche flat six background, sound matters … a lot, proven by poor 982 sales. Have driven 982s and there is an RPM range where all I can hear is a Hoover vacuum and unfortunately it's in the 4-6K RPM range. Turbo lag is real even in pcars (own one of those too). Sound is a big deal in the Porsche world, my 2018 Macan S sounds way better than a 982 GTS.
Have had first 982 Spyder allocation at local dealer for over 2 years. Ordered 2015 981 BGTS with over 20K in options, including PDK and PTV. Have four vehicles including a Macan S so my BGTS is a toy that has never seen rain. Garaged, covered, 4K miles, wife and I get it out about once a month for a back roads cruise. Love owning it whether or not I drive it often. With PDK, PTV, race headers and a protune it wails and will probably keep up with a GT4 or Spyder. At every get together with my 981 BGTS, someone has to look underneath to see what's going on. Check previous posts for sound clips.
But to answer the OP's question, maybe. Going to keep my 981 BGTS until 982 Spyder gets PDK and other options I want. Test drove a 982 manual recently and came to the conclusion I just don't want to drive a manual any longer. PDK is superior, get over it. My first two pcars were manuals, current two pcars are both PDK. Ventilated seats. Lane Change Assist. Black / Chalk interior (currently available on 982 base). Better special colors or PTS, Miami Blue is the worst blue Porsche produces. Porsche should be ashamed for not fixing the gearing and for torque limiting the 4.0. For not much more than Porsche wants to upgrade to a 982 Spyder, can keep my 981 GTS and buy a new C8 too.
981 GTS are special, they were produced in small numbers and allocated to dealers. Perfect blend of options for everyday drivability yet sporty enough to satisfy 99 percent. On the Porsche preowned site there are more GT3RS for sale at one TX dealer than there are 981 GTS for sale in the entire USA.
Porsche should be ashamed for not fixing the gearing and for torque limiting the 4.0.
Emissions had all to do with the gearing. And now thanks to emissions you get the start/stop engine feature and a motor that can shut half the cylinders down alternatively every 20 seconds. So some of what made the 981 Spyder and GT4 more analog, focused, and simple are gone. In the end Germans design their cars more for their own domestic market, and there you would think petrol is free as everyone drives their cars in the upper half of the rpm range.
Cars are going to get quicker and Porsche has followed suit with the computer industry to give you only a modest increase in power incrementally. Just enough to make you want the next one, but not so much it makes it impossible for them to best it with the next model. Luckily tire design is helping out as much as anything they're doing. Torque limiting the 4.0? Just depends if you like your power in the first or second half of the rpm range. Porsche doesn't give you both.
... if coming from a Porsche flat six background, sound matters… a lot, proven by poor 982 sales...
I've posted this elsewhere but just pointing out that 982 Cayman Sales/Production were up worldwide and in the US compared with 981 sales for equivalent production years, so not sure where you get your data from.
However, Boxter sales have been on a steady decline in specifically the US since 981/982 release, although 911s also saw a drop in sales in I think 2016/2017. I assume it is back up with the 992.
Presumably 718/982 sales are on a steady decline now given Porsche is extending the life cycle to I believe 2023. Nevertheless there have been many many more 982/718s sold compared with 981s for equivalent years and now growing numbers which actually is evidence to how good the revised platform is and that it has been well accepted by the market, NA fans aside.
I think you'll find 982 GT4 sales will be down on 981 GT4 sales for comparable years for obvious reasons, but IMO nothing wrong with the car, but just the benefits over the 981 GT4 are marginal, the new GT4 car hype is no longer there, and the 982/718 GTS is so good, noise aside. I actually think the 5000-7500RPM range is quite good in terms of engine noise but I am not coming from an NA 6, although I did have an old E30 NA6 in the day and the sound was very nice.
Worth having a read of this article for those deciding between a 718/982 GTS vs GT4/Boxter:
Strictly for autocross I'd probably lean towards the GTS. At least for what we have locally. A lot of small, tight courses. The lower torque curve of the GTS will really help pull out of corners.
Granted I'm thinking of my 981 GTS (rather than GT4/Spyder) compared to a 718 S/GTS, and manual compared to PDK.
Having experienced my 981 GTS on track and autocross as well as the 718 S/GTS I can get back in my car, drive a course and think, "Damn. If I were in that 718 GTS right now I'd be pulling so much harder/faster out of this corner."
You’re probably right. If you are ever in the PNW lmk. Especially in August for packwood. Sorry OP back to regular programming.
07-16-2019, 10:11 AM
