Who is trading GTS for GT4 or spyder
07-06-2019, 09:14 PM
#31
Not to put salt on your wound but the peak torque of the 718 GTS is at 5000 rpm, not 4000 rpm. It remains to be seen what the shape of the curve looks like but I suspect it will be more similar to the 981 F6 than flatter like a turbo.
Personally, I think Porsche overplayed their hand by trying to satisfy all the noisy NA fanboys. Hell, they can't even get rid of the GT3's that have flooded the market. "Wow..this is the best Porsche I have ever driven..please buy it from me!!"...LOL
Any softness in the stock market and I think people will be able to pick up a 991.2 GT3 with 4000 miles on it for $140K. My bet is that Porsche GT cars will start depreciating just like non-GT Porsches. Which if I really wanted a GT in the future, could be a good value but I know I am a GTS buyer. Better dual purpose ( road and track) car for me.
Personally, I think Porsche overplayed their hand by trying to satisfy all the noisy NA fanboys. Hell, they can't even get rid of the GT3's that have flooded the market. "Wow..this is the best Porsche I have ever driven..please buy it from me!!"...LOL
Any softness in the stock market and I think people will be able to pick up a 991.2 GT3 with 4000 miles on it for $140K. My bet is that Porsche GT cars will start depreciating just like non-GT Porsches. Which if I really wanted a GT in the future, could be a good value but I know I am a GTS buyer. Better dual purpose ( road and track) car for me.
Last edited by Semitone; 07-07-2019 at 10:54 AM.
07-07-2019, 10:25 AM
#33
Most of you probably know this but I'll add my 2c for those new to Porsche and who might be deciding between a GTS vs GT4.
These days the gap between GTS and GT cars is getting smaller and smaller. Take for example the 991.2 GTS Nurburgring time is faster than a 991.1 GT3 and only 12 sec off the 991.2 GT3 time but that is presumably with road going tires, so probably close to the same time with R compound. Similarly, the 718 GTS laps the Nurburgring same time as old GT4 with road tires and probably with larger Cup 2 tires and aero it will lap close to the 718 GT4, let a lone if you run a stage 1 or 2 tune on the GTS.
Of course the GTS cars are more comfortable, practical and more subtle. Sure they don't have the howl of an 8000 or 9000RPM NA 6 but they are overall quieter and I like the idea of a weekend away with my wife and being able to cruise down the motorway without any drone or engine noise. Or a drive into the city to see a show without looking like I'm driving a race car. The 718 GTS looks like a very nice Porsche sports car but it is not over the top, it is not mid-life crisis material, and it blends in nicely with the traffic, which can be a good thing particularly if your SO is not a motoring enthusiast. It is a great compromise without really sacrificing much performance.
Don't get me wrong, I think the 718 GT4 looks awesome and it does look like a race car with the more aggressive front splinter and rear wing, and I would love to have one in my garage but I don't think it would be as comfortable doing the above.
Performance wise the main difference is you can lap the GT cars out of the box over and over again whereas the GTS you probably need to upgrade brakes and tires if you want to go as hard lap after lap.
I can see why many people buy a GT car, particularly with club sport package, because they use it for driving to track days and other motor sport events then they drive it home but they don't necessarily use it for going out or on holiday. Whereas the S or GTS is great for that. Although it is a shame you can't get a club sport package with a S or GTS as I wouldn't mind the added security of the roll cage when doing tight tarmac rally style drives which the 718 GTS is great for.
So these are obviously cars designed for different purposes but with very similar levels of performance.
I think if the 718 GT4 comes out with PDK it could be a game changer, but it still wont change most of the above practicalities of the GTS.
In the mean time, I will probably upgrade my PDK 718 GTS with lighter wheels and larger Cup 2 tires and probably larger Girodisc brake upgrade which should keep it on par for the time being.
These days the gap between GTS and GT cars is getting smaller and smaller. Take for example the 991.2 GTS Nurburgring time is faster than a 991.1 GT3 and only 12 sec off the 991.2 GT3 time but that is presumably with road going tires, so probably close to the same time with R compound. Similarly, the 718 GTS laps the Nurburgring same time as old GT4 with road tires and probably with larger Cup 2 tires and aero it will lap close to the 718 GT4, let a lone if you run a stage 1 or 2 tune on the GTS.
Of course the GTS cars are more comfortable, practical and more subtle. Sure they don't have the howl of an 8000 or 9000RPM NA 6 but they are overall quieter and I like the idea of a weekend away with my wife and being able to cruise down the motorway without any drone or engine noise. Or a drive into the city to see a show without looking like I'm driving a race car. The 718 GTS looks like a very nice Porsche sports car but it is not over the top, it is not mid-life crisis material, and it blends in nicely with the traffic, which can be a good thing particularly if your SO is not a motoring enthusiast. It is a great compromise without really sacrificing much performance.
Don't get me wrong, I think the 718 GT4 looks awesome and it does look like a race car with the more aggressive front splinter and rear wing, and I would love to have one in my garage but I don't think it would be as comfortable doing the above.
Performance wise the main difference is you can lap the GT cars out of the box over and over again whereas the GTS you probably need to upgrade brakes and tires if you want to go as hard lap after lap.
I can see why many people buy a GT car, particularly with club sport package, because they use it for driving to track days and other motor sport events then they drive it home but they don't necessarily use it for going out or on holiday. Whereas the S or GTS is great for that. Although it is a shame you can't get a club sport package with a S or GTS as I wouldn't mind the added security of the roll cage when doing tight tarmac rally style drives which the 718 GTS is great for.
So these are obviously cars designed for different purposes but with very similar levels of performance.
I think if the 718 GT4 comes out with PDK it could be a game changer, but it still wont change most of the above practicalities of the GTS.
In the mean time, I will probably upgrade my PDK 718 GTS with lighter wheels and larger Cup 2 tires and probably larger Girodisc brake upgrade which should keep it on par for the time being.
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07-07-2019, 10:31 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
First gt4 allocations don,t become available unitl Jan 2020 so plenty of time to think about it.
07-07-2019, 10:58 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
@donR
That sums up my thoughts exactly.
I have Cup2s mounted now and it was glorious at Watkins Glen a few weeks ago.
I will be using this car in the same manner as you.
Road trips, fun outings and few track days here and there.
Mine doesnt blend in to traffic too well though. (Lava Orange)
IMO, there is not a more well rounded car to be had at any price point.
That sums up my thoughts exactly.
I have Cup2s mounted now and it was glorious at Watkins Glen a few weeks ago.
I will be using this car in the same manner as you.
Road trips, fun outings and few track days here and there.
Mine doesnt blend in to traffic too well though. (Lava Orange)
IMO, there is not a more well rounded car to be had at any price point.
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Semitone (07-07-2019)
07-07-2019, 09:43 PM
#37
Personally, I enjoy the increased performance of my 4 pot Porsche. No shame in substantial performance gains over the 981. I also really like the improved aesthetics. Sure some Forum dwellers may whine about vents and other stupid stuff but people who bitch online about every change Porsche makes are, in reality, just a noisy minority.
Let Porsche switch back to a six. Going backwards in the performance curve would be a true insult to enthusiasts in my book. I would look forward to the 718 becoming a cult classic...that I can actually drive.
Collectively, I’m willing to bet RL posters put fewer miles on their car than the average owner. To busy fussing over the latest 8 hour detail and cars and coffee to get mud and water on their car. Where else would you see classifieds with “ never driven in the rain”...LOL
With that being said, pretty sure the IMS issue is what tainted the 986 generation. The other complaints are just noise. People overcame the “ water-cooled crisis” and the fried eggs sold like hot cakes.
People rant and rave about 911 sales vs 718 sales. 981 holding value...which I don’t see..when I check Black Book values.. What props up Porsche sales in the US is a ten year bull market in stocks. People are willing to lay out some cash for their toys when they feel flush. A couple year dip in the market will flush all that right into the classifieds.
Yes, some models are more popular than others. Some age better. But I see a lot of people who own sports cars that probably just don’t have the budget. This goes for some folks buying their first 718 base or a GT3 “ trophy” car.
I bought one of the first 718 GTS cars because I thought it would make a great DE car. Cheap to maintain, easy to drive to the track and run like stink. So far so good. As long as no latent mechanical issues start to pop up with the generation, I am confident, I will get my money’s worth out of it. If I get value out of it, the next guy will to.
Let Porsche switch back to a six. Going backwards in the performance curve would be a true insult to enthusiasts in my book. I would look forward to the 718 becoming a cult classic...that I can actually drive.
Collectively, I’m willing to bet RL posters put fewer miles on their car than the average owner. To busy fussing over the latest 8 hour detail and cars and coffee to get mud and water on their car. Where else would you see classifieds with “ never driven in the rain”...LOL
With that being said, pretty sure the IMS issue is what tainted the 986 generation. The other complaints are just noise. People overcame the “ water-cooled crisis” and the fried eggs sold like hot cakes.
People rant and rave about 911 sales vs 718 sales. 981 holding value...which I don’t see..when I check Black Book values.. What props up Porsche sales in the US is a ten year bull market in stocks. People are willing to lay out some cash for their toys when they feel flush. A couple year dip in the market will flush all that right into the classifieds.
Yes, some models are more popular than others. Some age better. But I see a lot of people who own sports cars that probably just don’t have the budget. This goes for some folks buying their first 718 base or a GT3 “ trophy” car.
I bought one of the first 718 GTS cars because I thought it would make a great DE car. Cheap to maintain, easy to drive to the track and run like stink. So far so good. As long as no latent mechanical issues start to pop up with the generation, I am confident, I will get my money’s worth out of it. If I get value out of it, the next guy will to.
07-07-2019, 10:00 PM
#38
Yeah, I do, if your over riding concern is depreciation and you spend more time on "value" threads than you do on DIY.
I get it... Porsche is an aspirational brand and GT cars are trophies.
By the way, I have a 2005 Boxster S that I have had for 14 years with just over 30,000 miles. I average 1500 miles a year on that car. Wish I could find more time to drive it but I have a life too.
I get it... Porsche is an aspirational brand and GT cars are trophies.
By the way, I have a 2005 Boxster S that I have had for 14 years with just over 30,000 miles. I average 1500 miles a year on that car. Wish I could find more time to drive it but I have a life too.
Last edited by Semitone; 07-07-2019 at 10:18 PM.
07-07-2019, 10:13 PM
#39
My 911 is a weekend car for cruising and dinner with the wife. It’s impractical and cramp and zero room to haul heavy equipments for my vessel. Best describes as a toy more than a car. I enjoy staring at it or take it out for grocery and errands but no chance for work vehicle.
07-07-2019, 10:23 PM
#40
07-08-2019, 01:13 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
07-08-2019, 08:35 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
I was told by my sales rep that no allocation are available from porsche until Jan. I built a carrera T with this dealership so need to unsell me or oversell me. I was looking to switch out maybe from my T while i wait on 993 GT3 . Still not sure its my play yet.
07-08-2019, 12:29 PM
#45
If the GT4 had a touring option, I might get excited. But it's so close to the GTS, that I will just stick with what I have.
It may sound different, but I've gotten used to it and kind of like the difference.
It may sound different, but I've gotten used to it and kind of like the difference.
The following 2 users liked this post by Todd B:
michael818 (08-03-2019),
Semitone (07-08-2019)